Monk improvements

[Nihm]

"Monks don't need improving, they really are good with 20 buffs active on them"
 
"Your monk can be great if you have limitless amounts of potions and gp to blow"
 
Tired of hearing these things, I suggest the following improvements for this underplayed and weak class.  They are pale imitations of abilities that monks get after level ten.
 
level five, get the Resist Poison feat for free (replaces poison immunity at 11th)
 
level seven, the compentance bonus Still mind increases from plus two vs mind-affecting to plus four (compensation for missing spell resistance later)
 
level eight, gains permanent 20% concealment (compensation for not having empty body ability)
 
 
These changes would make monks more like the game intended them to be : worth a damn without having to have a fulltime buffer.

[Hammerfist0]

I know this is going to have the hell bashed out of it, so before the swarm descends, Id like to say:

I support this strongly.

[Gullible Righteousness]

In all honesty, 20% concealment seems like too much. An extra Dodge AC could do with, Monks commonly having a somewhat low( For this sever!), 17 AC on average.
 
Added: Everything else seems fine to me, though!

[BrittanyPanthas]

20% concealment is way too much, and +4 to mind saves is unnecessary.  Monks already get good saves for all of their saves and wisdom is already a primary stat for them.

The Dodge Feat and Resist Poison would be fine though.

[Hammerfist0]

In all honesty, 20% concealment seems like too much. An extra Dodge AC could do with, Monks commonly having a somewhat low( For this sever!), 17 AC on average.

20% would be strong, yes.

Id say +1 dodge ac (disabled in armor, of course) and 2/- damage reduction  would be far less overpowered.

[Jasede]

Monks are so-so if used right and great mage killers. And yeah, we all know they're great with 30 buffs cast on them; they benefit from buffs a lot.

I would really like to see some Monk improvements. I don't really like the idea of compensating by Monk loot because I don't see it fit the setting that much, but that's just my impression.

I'd propose something like

Level 1, Dodge feat for free
Level 3, Resist Poison feat for free
Level 5, +2 Flat Bonus to Dodge AC, or instead Mobility feat for free
Level 7, 5% concealment (even 5% is really, really good; maybe too good)
Level 9, Spring Attack feat for free

I think none of these are too much.

I don't like the idea of Damage Resistance though, that seems like it should stay with the Barbarians.

-- This all said, there's no real need for all classes to be balanced, and I wouldn't mind if no changes are made. It'll force Monks at lower levels to play very carefully and remember their weaknesses and strengths. However, that isn't everyone's cup of tea.

[I can has fun?]

I would like to see the monk class improved and most of these changes (the less powerful ones) sound good.

[Vlaid]

Well, let me first start out by saying that Monk is easily my favorite class followed by a close 2nd of Ranger. That said, I may be slightly biased.

I don't think monks are -that- weak. At least not as weak as some of these posts might lead you to believe based on the suggested changes (basically ignoring 20% of all incoming attacks?).

Monks could definitely do with having some 'flavor' buffs added to them much like Rangers and Barbarians received. It does often feel strange to me that monks AC is so low compared to your run of the mill warrior with a shield and rusted chain mail, their ability to dodge attacks is pretty lacking unless fully buffed.

I don't believe -any- class should be balanced around the idea they are walking around 24/7 fully buffed unless they can cast the buffs themself.

I've always hoped that someday the DM's would make some improvements to Monks, but most of the time that seems to come in the form of loot.

One thing I have generally not liked about monks...is that in melee combat, they end up playing like rogues unless you build one specifically to be a front-line brawler. In that I mean you really can't/shouldn't try to tank anything, and instead abuse your tumble to quickly get out of melee and re-engage once the enemies have latched onto other PC's. That's fun, it's even very monk-like to some degree, but I would like to think that a monk could also dodge enough attacks to be able to stay in the thick of it when they need to.

To that end...perhaps monks could get expertise at level 3, and improved expertise at level 7? Or maybe only expertise at some level. Their AC has always felt a bit too low to me. I don't know. Just tossing random ideas out.

I will agree with one thing, much like Barbarians, many of the Monk's *core* defining abilities are simply out of reach, realistically, and should likely have some weaker version given to them at lower levels (kinda like how barbarians get damage reduction at higher levels, but not until much higher level, so they get a weaker form at lower levels to compensate and give barbarians the 'feel' they need).

Ok, wall of text over.

[Snoteye]

I believe the collective EfU community has proven sufficiently many times that monks certainly do not need any extra boosts.

[Semli]

Monks are strange when compared to other classes.  They are better equipped to survive encounters than most characters are, but this only relates to their enhanced speed and ability to resist ranged attacks (via Deflect Arrows and high saves).  You have to be willing to run quickly and frequently to enjoy any success, because melee is where you are the most vulnerable.

[Garem]

I am fighting very strongly to not be sarcastic and be civil. But I must say, I disagree to the extreme.

If you put a ranger, a wizard, a fighter, and a monk naked in the Underdark, who is going to win/survive?

The monk.

Monks are good and they cost NOTHING to get it. Then, on top of that, they get healing like a Paladin's lay on hands, attacks per round that CANNOT be beat (flurry), a useful stun attack, amazing saves, Improved Knockdown, decent AB...

... FOR FREE.

In the old setting, they were on par with every other class, maybe a little sub par. Now, with the new economy, monks are better than ever before.

[Goblin Butcher]

I suggest they get stoneskin(7) 10/day at level 5 and perma haste.

[Cruzel]

I believe the collective EfU community has proven sufficiently many times that monks certainly do not need any extra boosts.

I agree. In the old setting. In the old setting with buffs and consumable bloat, monks were nearly unbeatable if used right.

It's still possible now, but with much less consumables, it is very, very different on EFU;A, imo.

I think a tweak is on order, but no concealment, lol. That makes no sense.  Monks naturally get a dodge bonus based on level.  I think just increasing this dodge bonus is sufficient enough of a tweak.
 at +5 this is already at +1, at +10 it is +2.  I think at level one you should get +1, with 1 AC for every 3 levels would be fine.  At level 9 you would only have +4 more AC, it's certainly not imbalancing.

[Caddies]

The trade-off for the monk is that you're subpar when unbuffed, and overpoweringly good when buffed. Monks have already received a huge power increase with Magic Weapon/Flame Weapon variants now being cast upon gloves; I severely question that they need to be further improved. The argument that monks need this boost to keep up with regular fighters when completely unbuffed is made void by the fact that no fighting on EFU:A is generally ever done without buffs. You're basically asking for monks to become excellent when unbuffed, without shedding any of the wild benefits they receive when actually buffed! Sometimes you can't have the best of both worlds.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

I only suggest that they get the dodge feat for free. Anything else is over-powered, I mean, After all, MONKS ARE GODS WHEN BUFFED.

From 18 AC to 32 AC, NO other class can do that.