Few beliefs I'd like to address.

[Jasede]

Everything has to be dark and grim and gritty these days; how cliche. I am so tired of Space Marines.


Fortunately, EFU:M can't simply described as that; it's far more hued and complex, at least from the perspective of the eternal semi-outsider- this gives it depth, mystique and secrets, something that we always like to come back for.

[Ebok]

It takes a lot of motivation to hate someone. Some players do not enjoy playing people with a lot of hatred towards anything. Not everyone enjoys spending their free-time being mean to icons that are controlled by other people.

No amount of pestering with if, and, or buts is going to change this fact. Not at least until one of the little savages runs up and tears off your leg an starts chowing down. At that point it stops being some distant understanding that this curse (which we don't really experience at all, btw) is the direct cause of all savages, and becomes that little tard bit off my leg! So as long as people play stargazers as appealing to character's morality, rather then being alienated because of it, we're going to see lots of people defend the pale skinned vampires.

If the DMs want it otherwise, perhaps get the town to offer rewards for dead stargazers. For capturing druids to be burned at the stake. Actively appealing to some other form of motivation that creates this turmoil you're after. Likewise, the gazers can be told by their elders to avoid the people, to not make friends, to not create weaknesses, when you have a "home" that expresses their opinions in ways that become tangible to the character you will see results.

It has to be a two way street, however. You can't just reward the town for killing gazers, you have to reward the gazers for fulfilling their end of the conflict. If you don't: then the people that hunt the gazers in the town with be black sheep amongst the others in the town that feel hostility is the fault of the actor. You need to have gazers earn this rep consistently.

You cannot untrain 'Reason' for superstition and traditions. Sure the Renaissance hasnt happened yet, and people shouldnt be thinking that logic and facts leads to conclusions. Blame and accustation of the most trusted figure will not just automatically mesh with the thought process of the modern player.

On a historical note, Mother Earth is understood by many during the dark ages to be one of the most important things to their lives. It is the source of their food, their water, the animals, everything that they are is directly linked to this reliance on their lands. Hunting down Druids that tend and speak for it for any reason isn't going to be wise; Neither Traditionally nor Rationally. That might change if the mists didn't protect the village and everyone was a ticking time bomb.

Wizards's of any kind should be just as hated. It -is- arcane magic that is killing the land, that has killed Nebezzdos, that is turning people into zombies. The Gazers... well, really it -is- their fault, so that's an easier leap.

[lovethesuit]

One of the things I've liked about EfU is that so many people "do it wrong." They use the word "racist" and speak to things like unity of the races and religions, cooperation, all that bullshit that doesn't happen in Toril. At least, not in the backwoods hick villages where we're all supposed to be from.

And likewise, that nobody here is particularly afraid of a good Hater, and in fact such characters and the people who play them don't simply sneer at everything different, but have justifications, backgrounds and beliefs that synergize with a hostile environment that this setting absolutely is.

I don't think there's anything wrong with things the way they are right now, by which I mean: EfU, keep on shining you crazy diamonds!

[TakenByVisions]

Well no, it's not just okay the way it is. It is actually really frustrating to me when I see characters in the Numinous Order, Stygian Armada (previously of course), and countless others simply open their arms to these rather savage and primitive creatures. They eat the dead, worship totems of animals rather than the gods (something else to bicker at them for), oppose civilization to an extent, and were the driving force behind releasing H'Bala. They are not cuddly Ewoks or fuzzy little animals you can domesticate and play with.

First off I think that the fact that they are Halflings and the general misconceptions that race receives in the first place causes a slight issue. Nothing can be done about that part on either side of the spectrum however, we'll always have hyper-active and cutesy Halflings to annoy us sadly.

Secondly, and more importantly, I think that this subrace and faction needs to have a more in-depth guide detailing their general behaviors, attitudes, and daily happenings. Even getting a hold of the totem list was difficult for a long time, and it really should not be kept an OOC secret, nor should anyone expect these characters to act as they were imagined to be if they simply don't know about them.

[Mort]

As far as the curse is involved and what it is. It's a roleplaying server, means you are the actor that's meant to do the acting, here. We're handing you bits and pieces of play script, ambience, information, setting, a few premade scenes, but its your job to mesh that all that with your creation (your character!). Some people are going to  "Leonardo Di Caprio" it, while others will go the "Stallone" route...

Think of it like the Underdark and being a slave. Your character had to take into account that he was stuck there, it had to be part of his story. He had to take into account that he had passed some time in slavery. That all creates depth, purpose and a goal to escape the Underdark which you could use -- it was like one of those easy-bake goals that were precooked and you just eat it up. This is exactly the same thing. It's a tool to help you create depth, have an easy premade goal, roleplay being scared, uncertain, scarred, etc. All possibly interesting scenarios.

Anyway, it seemed like the three beliefs I mention were common slip-ups, whether intentional -- because you can't roleplay animosity/fear/mistrust in a game that ,yes, is something-for-fun but it is a roleplaying server... we're roleplaying because we enjoy that challenge of being really immersed into a character, setting or situation and seeing the story unfold. -- or non-intentional because the information displayed through the gameworld is often incomplete and innaccurate and sometimes that information can be misinterpreted (quite often). So that's why we need to sometimes reset the clocks (with an announcement, clarification, or what have you!)

Take it as feedback -- if you feel concerned. If you dont, just keep it in the back of your mind.

* * *

One last thing. Character integrity is really -really- important. Dont break the integrity of your character, ever! Whether it's taking a scripted quest given by a questgiver that you shouldn't help (i.e. An Halforc Banite who hates the Numinous Order but does the Gnoll Quest, i.e. HELPING THE ORDER 5x day.) Same thing with DM quests. If I make a sending of an old lady asking to take down her cat from the tree for no pay, no gain... don't show up with your evil character unless you have a DAMN good reason for helping her (An angel found your true name and forcing you do commit good acts) ... I know you want those DM XPs and possibility for extras, but you're not helping yourself!

"But Mort, I'm trying to gain ze good guys' trust!" -- Oh I see. Ye Olde Do Goodly acts until the time of betrayal trick... A headache maker.

"But Mort, there is nothing to do and I'm bored, please let me come!" -- I sympathize, but you're doing a disservice to your character. The more integrity your character has, the cooler/interesting he will feel to play. You'll have other opportunities.

I doubt this feedback will even reach the people it is intended for, but it's really intended for all of us... It's easy to bend the integrity of a character, we all did it at one point, I'm certain. But it's something that if you are aware of it, you can better watch yourself. Each time you break the integrity, you're slowly becoming the generic gamer/default character... and becoming that is the sure way to become bored of a character.

[Spiffy Has]

I can say I was pleased by the recent prejudice I've faced on my Stargazer.

I'd like to see more prejudice coming from Stargazers as well!

These outsiders are people who have enslaved, hunted, killed for sport, defiled sacred lands, attempted to exterminate, summoned undead...

Need the list go on?

[Egon the Monkey]

The biggest one to me has always been proportionality. I've always enjoyed playing the occasional brawler PC, but I can guarantee that if you start a fistfight,

As for what PCs "Should hate" that's entirely down to what they hear. Any PC who digs in a little more than "evil witch" would know H'bala was a sorceress, and that could be a reason to fear Bloodmages or sorcerers far more than Wizards. Knowing the Warden=Scrivener Lotheri Sanq could cause mistrust of all Jergalites.

[Egon the Monkey]

The biggest one to me has always been proportionality. I've always  enjoyed playing the occasional brawler PC, but I can guarantee that if  you start a fistfight or pull a club, some players will go into full on PVP mode and quaff half a dozen potions, raising the stakes and probably planning to loot anyone they downed to recover the stuff they used. Or they'll respond to a punch with a greataxe. It's rare to see fights that chars brush off rather than use as an excuse to create bigger and bigger conflict and mutter about "rrr rrr I'll get you for that". Seems Ymph has lots of rather thin-skinned adventurers.

On the other hand if every time a mage interferes in an "argument level" fight with a DM present they end up causing 1000GP of DM mandated damage to the furniture, scaling things up to a chugfest or being set upon with extreme force for OMG MAGICS, you start to wonder why you bother. NWN has a rather restricted set of single target damage spells, obviously nonlethal stuff or spells that at least won't wreck inanimate objects. I recall blasting a duel cheat or something with Combust and a PC beating my char down "because you could have set the building on fire oh noes" when I'd chosen a spell deliberately as it couldn't affect nearby placeables. There's a balance between an IC response to magic and the limited selection of attacks a mage can use. Those which can sub someone without property damage are also mostly necromancy, which has its own problems. If Johannes ever scripts up Bigby's Strong Left Hook as a L2 spell for barfights though... :D.

As for what PCs "Should hate" They're new to Ymph, isn't that more down to what they find out.  Any PC who digs in a little more than "evil witch" would know H'bala was  a sorceress, and that could be a reason to fear Bloodmages or sorcerers. Knowing the Warden=Scrivener Lotheri Sanq could  cause mistrust of all Jergalites. They could become convinced the Order were manipulating events to cause the Apocalypse, because they must have their visions come to pass. Not to mention that if your PC's sworn enemies have a prejudice against someone, he might wonder if they're all that bad.

Ebok, if the DMs offered rewards for dead stargazers, that'd only create a "red vs blue" effect. In fact I recently saw an Order NPC suggest running them out of town but flat out refuse to pay any sort of bounty for them as what's the point? There is a giant common enemy of everything living trying to corrupt all of Ymph, and ignoring it to backstab each other assumes 8 Wis all round. "I don't trust the filthy savages, don't let him in/with us/out of sight while we happen to need his help" is far more interesting conflict than "Kill them on sight".

[Caddies]

Remember Mort like three years ago when everytime his PCs typed something you thought he might be banging his head against his keyboard randomly before pressing enter?

Now look at him, laying down the real truth flavour with more eloquence and mastery of English than half of you scumbags will ever enjoy.

GG no re.

[Caddies]

Also, if any of you manage to get above 1750+ PSR on HoN, I'll consider adding you as a friend and playing with you.

[SanTelmo]

1752 atm but dunno if i wanna play with a noob like u. account is the same as here. picking my valkyrie and heading to the game->

[RagingPurpleGiant]

It takes a role-player to play a character's weaknesses when it is convenient, but it takes a bamf to play a character's weaknesses when it makes life more difficult.

[Drakill Tannan]

Perhaps something that might help is that IMO failing is fun, depending on the situation. I often metagame some aspects in the gameworld to act in such way my character will end up screwed, hopefully in a mess he needs to do something to get out of, or that end having another PC hate him. I've had them speak things that are purposely wrong, as if they were truth (but my PC doesn't know!) to create conflict, and it always ends up with more fun.

DMs won't destroy mistlocke if wedon't destroy H'bala in 2 months. If there is an idiot dude who starts a cruzade against the gazers, it'll just add to the fun, since it will open many posibilities (as long as he/she isn't cheap). So i say encourage him/her.

[Ebok]

Egon, I was just making an observation. If you want a Red vs Blue (consistent and acting prejudice that becomes the norm) you need some acting tool that creates the feeling for brand new outta the box adventurers. I have no issues hating on people, in fact I really enjoy heckling people now and then. If you don't want red vs blue, then you get a mixed bag consistently. And sometimes it'll turn up in favor of the savages.

That said, I was informed while working with the team wild to release Hbala to begin with...<_> that stargazers are actually considered Monstrous player characters. You do not need a history between the characters to be legitimate in offing them. It's just like a kobald, only they are not automatically evil.

I should mention: I agree with Mort on every point, and proportionality never seems to mesh in any situation I've ever been involved with. Insult should not = I take your head with my axe. Our combats tend to jump steps, often. Ad for the curse, there could be more information on what the physical signs of the progression actually are. I've seen it go from extremes like parts are falling off, to complete ignorance of any effect outside of itching.

[Underbard]

My gazer has a very deep mistrust of the stoopid hoomans, but I wasn't aware that qualified him as a monstrous race.  Just keep the hate coming.