Downed in fight involving both PCs and mobs

[The Old Hack]

During wilderness PvP where mobs had entered the fight as well, I was sent bleeding in the middle of the fight, then got healed by a friend. I re-entered the battle without realising that it was actually a PC who had downed me because I did not get a warning from the game to stay down and hence a DM knocked me down again. When there are several mobs about and a great deal of the damage you take comes from the mobs, it can be hard to tell that it is a PC who dealt the finishing blow as the combat log can get very confusing. Perhaps there should be a message telling you that you have been defeated by a PC even when said PC is set to FD? That way it would be easier to avoid making the mistake I just made; it was sheer reflex getting back up as I always do that during fights against mobs on quests and so forth.

[Eddie Walker]

During wilderness PvP where mobs had entered the fight as well, I was sent bleeding in the middle of the fight, then got healed by a friend. I re-entered the battle without realising that it was actually a PC who had downed me

I could be mistaken, but I do believe that the PVP rules state if you were bleeding then it is legal to get back up if healed or survive as you weren't subdued/knocked out.   As for a message telling you if you were done in via a PC there's a pretty wordy yellow ooc message telling you that you were subdued if you happened to have been via a PC.  

A side note, if you were bleeding out and healed you'd also get right back up, if you were subdued and healed you'd stay laying there on the ground.

12. If you have been subdued, you should remain on the ground until the PvP is resolved or until you have DM permission to get up. This includes situations where there is mass fighting going on, and you have been healed. If you have been subdued, you are down and should remain so regardless of any other situation. If, however, you've been attacked, and put into negative hitpoints, and then either recovered (or were healed) it is fine to get back up, run away, keep fighting, whatever.

In all honesty we're all just human and mistakes are made, if the above rule has been overridden do be let us know.... as I've noticed a lot out of date in the manual.

Eddie.

[KillerB]

You can indeed be healed and jump back into the fight if the enemy PC sent you into bleeding (and was thus on FD). The subdual rules are in place due to the courteous nature of the function. You did nothing wrong! :)

[The Old Hack]

I don't understand. If I did nothing wrong, why was I knocked out by a DM, put to Subdued and told to lie down again? *scratches head* And yes, when I am Subdued, I get the message, but this was FD so I didn't...

[DeputyCool]

KillerB seems to have misunderstood, and thought a PC knocked you into bleeding, not NPC's. It sounds like this was an instance where you didn't do anything wrong intentionally, but where you just had to be corrected due to uncertainty over circumstances! I wouldn't take it so personally.

[The Old Hack]

I've had a chance to talk and think things over and it seems this whole thing happened due to chaos and confusion in the fight where it happened. My apologies to everyone involved as I truly did not intend to make any sort of complaint or big case out of this; I sincerely wanted the situation clarified and possibly some ground rule to be laid out if needed.

Once again my apologies, especially to the DMs involved.

[Porkolt]

That there was confusion influencing the decisions made is clear enough.

However! I think the fact that a mix of PCs and NPCs are using both FD and subdual mode at the same time is what caused the confusion in the first place, and is something that should have been avoided.

There is a very clear difference in the rules on what to do when you are subdued (which is stay down under all circumstances) and what to do when you are knocked down and bleeding (which is try to get healed and back up, because otherwise you die).

Because getting subdued and being knocked into negative hitpoints is mechanically exactly the same thing (because NWN recognizes no difference between subdual damage and actual damage), and the only practical difference is that, when subdued, getting some healing won't get you up but not getting any is fine, and when bleeding, getting some healing will, but not getting any is disastrous, well.

I'm already getting confused about the way I'm trying to make the point. Reason enough to avoid using subdual and FD at the same time.

[Third Day Sepulchre]

It sounds like this was an instance where you didn't do anything wrong  intentionally, but where you just had to be corrected due to uncertainty  over circumstances!

Corrected? Now I am confused. If you are knocked via any FD mode into bleeding and are healed by someone else, are you not allowed to continue? And how does that make any sense? Sincerely, a concerned citizen.

[lovethesuit]

Corrected? Now I am confused. If you are knocked via any FD mode into bleeding and are healed by someone else, are you not allowed to continue? And how does that make any sense? Sincerely, a concerned citizen.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what Deputy means is that someone thought he got up after being subdued, when in fact he got up after bleeding from a FD attack. The reason I think that is because he was put back to subdued, which is what you would see if that decision was made by a DM. I think that because there was so much going on at once, the DM may have seen someone get up, but didn't see that it was not getting up from subdual damage. In that situation, it's an absolutely understandable reaction. Am I in the ballpark?

[Spiffy Has]

Hairy situations like this, being subdued, then getting killed by monsters, is always something vexatious and very annoying.



If you get sent into the 'red' (neg hp) by a monster while subdued, I think you're perfectly OKAY in healing yourself to max hit points, and dragging yourself away from the fighting (But remaining in the same area, and not fighting back if you get subdued, FDed, whatever)

[Talir]

This isn't a suggestion and looks to have been cleared.

Closing it.

[Big Orc Man]

That was my error.  In the chaos, I thought you had been subdued, and then knocked negative by monsters!

There's obviously no ill will towards you or anything.  Was my mistake!