Scrap Great Fortitude as a Bloodmage Requirement

[Brimstone Sermon]

Why? Because Bloodmage is hard to earn and you might not even run across the details for it IC. Lots of Sorcerers take Great Fortitude just in case they happen to get the chance to go Bloodmage, but unless you get that chance there's other more useful or flavourful feats to have. This means we have had 2 PC Bloodmages, but a hell of a lot of Sorcs who could only choose 2 feats.  It's not like Assassin where your PC would have the stealth ranks anyway, or Divine Champion where Weapon Focus is a decent choice for most melee PCs.

Since it's not an actual Character Class, there's no need to have Great Fortitude as a requisite. Bloodmage sits on top of your normal levels. Whether a PC deserves it or not is entirely within the control of the DMs, so putting that feat requirement in there just seems to me to make it harder on those PCs that don't manage it. I can understand the RP reason for requiring it, but surely you can represent that with a FORT roll in the Ritual or a minimum base Fortitude save? I mean you could have Great Fortitude and 8 Con, or 16 CON without it.

[Damien]

You forget how good a feat great fortitude actually is tbh, there needs to be some mechanical requirement for any prc in my opinion and guess maybe the logic behind it is something to do with blood and fort representing it best?

[Brimstone Sermon]

It's not necessarily a feat and it's usually something that is generally taken by the preceding class anyway. Pale Master is just 3 Arcane Caster Levels for example. Plus, Bloodmage isn't a class you level in and there's a long and dangerous IC path to learn it. Mechanical requirements are there for NWN mechanics. Bloodmage and Ruby don't need them, only RP ones. Ruby doesn't actually have any. With Bloodmage, you need to find a way to even learn the class exists IC. That seems restriction enough.

You can't app Bloodmage until your PC has gone some way IC to finding it. This means that there's plenty of PCs that have taken Great Fort but have no chance of earning Bloodmage, either by poor application or inability to locate the Ritual. They didn't need it to RP being hard as nails or for their build, just for the PrC. Another feat would have suited better. On the other hand Bloodmage is so potentially good that you want the chance to apply if you find out how IC. This isn't about making a rare and potentially powerful class any stronger. It's about not having players waste a feat in a vague hope of a class they likely won't get.

[EvilKnievel]

I wanted to speak against it, because of the RP reason behind having a good fort as a bloodcaster. Though the op convinced with a single line:

I mean you could have Great Fortitude and 8 Con, or 16 CON without it.

Something like you got to have

Great Fortitude + (X fort)
or
Y fort

sounds quite good to me and opens up a few more options for sorcs who want to go bloodmage while keeping a mechanical requirement for the PRC.

[Random_White_Guy]

Compared to the 10,000 feats it takes to get Weapon Master, 1 feat isn't that big of a deal.

Also a heartier PC is never a bad thing. It's not like it's a throw away feat.

[Paha]

You ever thought there might be a reason for what they decided as requirements ? Remember. You must go through some dangerous things to even have -chance- of becoming one.

Perhaps that feat, just little bit, might increase your chances.

[Damien]

AND it's a good feat! You act like it is some terrible rp feat that has no use other than as a prereq to a prc and again there a risks with any prc, I think it would be more crippling for a fighter to take all the prereq feats for weaponmaster and failing in that than great fort for a sorceror.

[KillerB]

If we do this, BG should lose Hide and Cleave requirements.

[Big Orc Man]

I think it would make sense for the sorcerer to be able to pick any of the three +2 stat feats that best represents their character as a pre-requisite.

And yes, the Blackguard requirements are hideous and silly.

[Brimstone Sermon]

RwG, Damien: The difference is that it's far easier to fail to get Bloodmage than say Weapon Master. You can apply in advance for WM and know you at least have a chance before making the PC. For Bloodmage you have to be some way towards it IC before apping. This has led to a lot of characters who took Great Fort instead of a more appropriate feat. It's not a bad feat by any means, but it's led to a number of PCs that are restricted in Feat choices to allow for something they'll never get. Rather than the difficult end of the scale that is Weapon Master, compare it to Pale Master, RDD, Arcane Archer or Dwarven Defender that have relatively low restrictions on the PC since the concept would likely have the requirements anyway.

Paha_poika: As I said, I could play a 10 CON elf sorc and have 4 FORT at level 7 with Great Fortitude. Or I could run an 18 CON Gold Dwarven sorc and have 6 FORT without Great Fortitude. Your saves are more dependent on level, Spellcraft, racial bonuses and loot. I don't know what's in the ritual but if it involves needing physical toughness, well put a FORT roll in there and let players choose how to boost their saves.

There's plenty of ways to fail at Bloodmage even with a successful app. Removing the requirement means failed PCs aren't tied down in the builds they use. Other than PP, nobody's come up with a positive reason to include class requirements other than "NWN classes have them", only excuses for them now they're there. Heck, I'd go so far as to suggest that if it were possible Assassin should be allowed to have 8 Bluff instead of 8 H/MS.

tl;dr:
You can't know in advance if you have a chance at Bloodmage, so people take Great Fort hoping they'll get it. More than any other class, people fail early at getting Bloodmage. Therefore, if there has to be a requirement, a Skill one (Spellcraft?) makes more sense as you can take it at any levelup. Why have a requirement anyway, when you can challenge the PC with Fortitude saves and let the player decide how their concept gets a good score. Build, loot, buffs.