New PvP rule/New implementation for subdual

[DwarvenWhore]

I think players seem to be in the mindset that they need to "win" at EFU. It's always been the mindset for some players and while I understand that some players find this aspect of EFU/NwN fun to others it's quite a harsh but I feel one or two measures could be used in order to "balance" PvP a little.

Option 1: A rule is put in place that "/c subdual full" should only be used under the following circumstances

- Combat is fully resolved (This means that everyone in one party has been subdued/fleed) This stops people FDing just because they look like they're starting to lose and just want take casualties with them.

- If the battle particularily "one-sided" then the lesser group is led to an appropriate place. This can either be Mistlocke, the Enclave, the Priory, the Stewards cave or to a particular remote place if you wish to keep the death hidden. This introduces an element of danger on the character for fear they are "caught" by someone who may be sympathetic to the defeated people. This allows for the PC to die with "dignity" and at least be able to take a screenshot of a half decent ending.

- Looting a full corpse should only be used in EXTREME cases since a) To manevuer realistically with a corpse long distances in an attempt to hide them is extremely difficult and unlikely for fear of being caught and b) the fact looted corpses aren't visible in any way leaves it too easy to meta-game.

Option 2 - Using "/c subdual full" results in a significant XP loss. This means that the higher level your character is, the less likely you are to FD someone just to "win". It has OOC implications on your character forcing you to think twice about FDing said character.

[Spiffy Has]

Option one has merit, option 2 is frankly silly.

[Crossed.Over]

I'm not sure there really is a balance issue to solve. As for the actual suggestions, I think it would be silly to try and implement the criteria, and more, would take away from the game more than it contributes to it. The second option is worse because it just doesn't make sense. I'd suggest people just be more mindful if there really is a problem with the use of full death currently and for victims to approach a DM whenever they feel they were in a circumstance that could have been dealt better. This way the DMs can look at it and even if the fd was fine, have a better idea of what actual things they may wish to implement as they will have the whole picture to work with.

[DwarvenWhore]

Option 2 I even say myself isn't the "cleanest" option to be frank but my reasoning behind it is, people aren't mindfull at all. Call this thread due to partial butthurt but my character got FD'd today because I tried to knock a player to the ground using subdual (when they already had been subdued), they swung back and FD'd me. After which a DM said I could be raised but not respawned. Realistically though, who is willing to raise a character that's a day old? I /could/ make another yet my joint concept has been shattered as a result.

If the second option was in play they wouldn't have been set to "Subdual full" in the first place because they would HAVE to be mindful if only for their own characters sake. It lowers how many PC's might have to run to a DM shouting "grief".

[Gotham]

Option 1: A rule is put in place that "/c subdual full" should only be used under the following circumstances

- Combat is fully resolved (This means that everyone in one party has been subdued/fleed) This stops people FDing just because they look like they're starting to lose and just want take casualties with them.

- If the battle particularily "one-sided" then the lesser group is led to an appropriate place. This can either be Mistlocke, the Enclave, the Priory, the Stewards cave or to a particular remote place if you wish to keep the death hidden. This introduces an element of danger on the character for fear they are "caught" by someone who may be sympathetic to the defeated people. This allows for the PC to die with "dignity" and at least be able to take a screenshot of a half decent ending.

- Looting a full corpse should only be used in EXTREME cases since a) To manevuer realistically with a corpse long distances in an attempt to hide them is extremely difficult and unlikely for fear of being caught and b) the fact looted corpses aren't visible in any way leaves it too easy to meta-game.

I thought this was all more or less accepted and encouraged practice already.

[Nihm]

Nothing is going to change.  If you want to play here, you have to accept that someday your pc will be full damaged, sometimes for an unknown or made up reason.
 
People would much rather endlessly pvp each other than do anything else such as try to solve the settings mysteries.
 
Having to pay xp to full damage someone is actually a good idea though as it would make them question how much they actually want this person out of the way.

[Paha]

Option 2 I even say myself isn't the "cleanest" option to be frank but my reasoning behind it is, people aren't mindfull at all. Call this thread due to partial butthurt but my character got FD'd today because I tried to knock a player to the ground using subdual (when they already had been subdued), they swung back and FD'd me. After which a DM said I could be raised but not respawned. Realistically though, who is willing to raise a character that's a day old? I /could/ make another yet my joint concept has been shattered as a result.

If the second option was in play they wouldn't have been set to "Subdual full" in the first place because they would HAVE to be mindful if only for their own characters sake. It lowers how many PC's might have to run to a DM shouting "grief".

I understand what you're saying, but I think I know the situation you speak of.

You attacked a captured person/being, aberrant that was caught to be killed and executed. You chose to end the talk, and attacked them while being very wounded yourself, to play your character that got tired of talking to monsters.

However, you need to understand what you did. You attacked monster, that was not shackled or restrained any more than having been beaten and then allowed to stand up again. It was able to retaliate, and it did. You were like, badly injured or near death, and got struck down. Wouldn't a convict in real life try to claw someone to death even in handcufs if they knew they were going to die and got nothing to lose?

In this situation, you died because of your own choice. You could have healed up, not attacked at all or others could have helped you - which they did not before it was too late. It was their choice and also IC. As unfortunate cruel as it may sound, you chose to not heal beforehand and took it for granted that you could carelessly take action without it having any consequence to yourself.

We must remember that there are situations where beings/monsters are killed for being what they are, but people that also aim to kill them, open themselves to the chance of being killed by these monsters.

Regarding the suggestion in itself, even if it was fueled by this event, I try to give my opinion. I don't think it can, nor that it should be changed. It is part of efu, and of course DM's see and watch over the use of FD and subdual, and if some eagerly go killing people without there being any reasonable cause for it, they will take action. All that you spoke of is already considered good behavior and common courtesy in general.

[One_With_Nature]

I agree with Paha 100%

[Cerberus]

Always assume your PvP opponent is on FD. No matter what you or they are doing and how many others are laying around [subdued]. I learned to do that a while back and ever since I find it easier to take the death of my PC or "accidentally" FDing somebody because I forgot to switch to subdual. This train of thought is a deterrent in itself as it makes you think that ANY PvP can lead to your PC's retirement.

[CelieDijon]

This train of thought is a deterrent in itself as it makes you think that ANY PvP can lead to your PC's retirement.

I think this is the best way of thinking about it. You need to realize each PvP situation, however small, could result in permanent death. Things change on EfU very rapidly.

Don't let this discourage you from taking risks, though- the most memorable characters are those that took on incredible odds, and won. But for each of those, ten characters failed to outlive those odds.

[xXCrystal_Rose]

Just because the name isn't "Bandit, Veteran" or "Wild Orc Berserker" and they're glowing red all the time doesn't mean they won't kill you. Keep this in mind. A kobold pc is just as likely to kill you straight up as a kobold npc, and likewise everyone else them. When engaging in pvp always plan for the worst. Murderous criminals and monsters are exactly that. Just because they are a PC character doesn't mean they're going to be much nicer than their npc equivalents. Those option 1 suggestions are basically how it's done right now already. Once in a while though you'll have that one person that randomly ganks you in an alley on FD mode simply to steal one item they know you are carrying. It sucks, but it happens.

[Pandip]

I wouldn't mind seeing the first thing implemented simply because there's almost no reason to just straight out full death someone in the middle of the fight. It certainly doesn't encourage fun and definitely doesn't give way to better roleplay because nine out of ten times, FDing someone without roleplaying out the action/situation will result in a player watching an unsatisfying loading screen before they're informed that they aren't returning from the fugue. If anything, it should at least be mentioned in the rules as being good etiquette. I certainly don't feel as if a FD should occur until combat is indisputably resolved.

[The Boom King]

I learned some time ago that no mercy is permitted in the dangerous world of EfU. If it's IC to kill someone, do it.
 
They don't usually return the OOC favor of letting their character live.

[putrid_plum]

EFU will alwyas be based around PvP with a sprinkle of RP, it's been like that for so long and doubt it will change.  People would much rather kil eachother endlessly in an areana style than delve deep into awesome mysteries and lore, not saying a few PCs don't come out from time to time and ROCK that aspect of EFU though!  Full Death killing happens, often for dumb reason or reasons you might not see or agree with but make sense for the other PC.

[HungeringShadows]

I learned some time ago that no mercy is  permitted in the dangerous world of EfU. If it's IC to kill someone, do  it.
 
They don't usually return the OOC favor of letting their character live.

I disagree with you there. As leader of the Abberants I've not  killed any of the druids who I've subdued. While I know they will not  and cannot spare me for ic reasons. I don't feel that it is tasteful to  slay people outright for fear they are not going to show you the same  courtesy.

It really is impossible to be a good character without  enemies. Slaying them is counter productive. It can be tempting to end  the threat and get a bunch of potions and gold in the process. But you  should always stop and think about ll the wonderful interactions will  spawn from their attempts on your life.