Summon Nerf

[Ebok]

We can desummon them anyway. It just takes a minute. And removes any benefit from ever summoning them to begin with.

[Relinquish]

We can desummon them anyway. It just takes a minute. And removes any benefit from ever summoning them to begin with.

No i mean the things you are fighting. And if anyone cares to elaborate what exactly got nerfed?

[Bobbybrown]

I found the points in this thread to seem very valid so i am going to try to pull it back into discussion if possible. I use the fire summon theme and...well...my main problem is even though it can do higher dmg, it doesn't tend to survive long enough to make a hit at times even on common enemies. Ebok has a point, downing the dmg but allowing more summons really makes more problems than solutions, a single summon is pathetic, but a mass of them makes things far more difficult for players to handle, it just completely screwed up any balance in my opinion.

[Calimport Smoke]

I played EFU before all these summon changes. Since they were implemented, wizards that once had to rely heavily on allies and shadow mastiff's now run around soloing random areas and the whole of the wilds. They also save up a burst of summons to solo hard bosses. What other school even comes -close- to conjuration in terms of utility and power.

It used to be people took GSF conjuration for mestil/evards/web and that was pretty balanced. Now? You can take it and at level 9 solo practically any monster on the server with no risk.

A rebalance was needed. Even at 7 AB your mob of summons is dangerous in a group. Stacking summons - even light sparks - was / is deadly. You can also buff your summons...

This was a needed change.

[Calimport Smoke]

Relinquish -- all summons that stacked, I believe. Elementals, etc.

[Calimport Smoke]

I'd also add that + tomes and other boosts have proliferated. Level 9 PCs summoning up summon VII is obtainable with no DM loot. It's like full plate for a fighter -- expected from those that work for it, and i'd think the server is balanced accordingly.

[CakePlease]

I should like to add that there are game breaking counters spells against summoners its just nobody ever seems to use it.

Dismissal: Wizard/Sorcerer (5) Bard/Cleric (4)

Colossal area of effect/Will save

"All summoned creatures, animal companions, and familiars belonging to enemy spellcasters are unsummoned within the area of effect."

I should also like to add i've seen more then a couple pieces of loot with this particular spell on. Some summons required a nerf but i think thats always going to be the case, nothing i ever going to be perfectly balanced. As for the system as a whole its been in opperation now for some time and it actually made conjurers worth playing again (especially with the nerf to evards in terms of power). Rather then people claiming summons are impossible to beat perhaps they should explore the very very obvious counter to it which can easily devestate a caster.

Considering that swarms of summons are going to be using up a mages few spell slots that will generally leave them without other useful defensive/offensive spells which in itself balanaces each encounter out PvP/PvE. For PvE in general i can tell you that you're wrong about being able to solo everything as a mage who has focused on conjuratio/summoning, on a quest of equiavelent challenge to my level so like.. level 1-2 summons on granary, 4-5 on Kants etc.. In most of these cases the summons would serve as extra support against general mobs and proved mostly useless against sub-bosses/bosses (Mobs generally killing them swiftly).

Like all mages its about knowing when to use your spells/When the spell will be most effective/using spells sparingly to survive an entire encounter. (Summons don't last forever!) So to sum up:

1. Summons in PVE are not overpowered unless you expending rare reagents/ methods of summoning higher tier monsters (Which are certainly not commmon).

2. Summons in PVP can be brutal for the reciving end if they are unprepared the same as any mage really, except there are more then one counter.. i.e. Dismissal/Summon your own monsters to distract theirs/Darkness/Inivisibility? (in most cases) Lots more but cba to list everything.

3. Individual summons may need tweaking but the system as a whole i find to be a great addition to EFU and it has made conjurers a lot more fun to play allowing the caster to choose from a wide selection of custom summon themes (at the same time) and the system has been made so that unless you have actually focuses on conjuration your summons will mostly certainly not last long enough to be useful on a longer term basis.

So rather then hating on conjurers, maybe start using your noodles and finding ways to counter them. It would be nice in PvE to see the more powerful bossess use spells like dismissal if they detect a summon to save the classic; summon everything you have and try to nuke the boss before it can do much. (Maybe prioritise the spell somehow?)

Rant over.

[CakePlease]

I'd also add that + tomes and other boosts have proliferated. Level 9 PCs summoning up summon VII is obtainable with no DM loot. It's like full plate for a fighter -- expected from those that work for it, and i'd think the server is balanced accordingly.

I should also add + tomes are not common at all and while they can be obtained without DM support it is very difficult and very uncommon. People seem to make a lot of assumptions regarding this.

[ThePaintedLady]

Holy thread-o-mancy!
 
As a summoner, I think the current system is well balanced and summons are where they need to be.