High danger exploration area

[The Old Hack]

Right,

Yesterday a group of some eight or nine PCs entered a random encounter exploration area found in the tunnels of the Dell. After first killing some fairly easy ogres in a tunnel we found an area with a sign saying 'beware the Bloodhowl' or words to that effect. Our group, which was probably level seven or so average, prepared for a fight and buffed up.

We promptly got hit by a floodwave of Orcs, which was not in and of itself the problem. They were darn tough but our front line could hold them, barely. The problem was more that then an Orcan shadowdancer NPC appeared behind our line and proceeded to brutally kill all the support characters in moments. It one-shotted our cleric, took down my sorcerer with two blows and paralysed an archer with a single death attack before moving on chasing the next target. It did not take long before the entire front line, now without healers and support, got rolled up and wiped out. Ironically I stabilised only to be instagibbed by an Orcan archer the very moment my character stood up. Only two characters escaped.

Perhaps these encounter areas should be looked a bit into. The main charge of Orcs was in and of itself deadly. With a shadowdancer added in who was powerful enough to kill support characters in seconds, and targeting these specifically, it got kind of ridiculous. We had no warning of the shadowdancer, no way of stopping him, and thirty seconds after he popped up the damage was done.

Please note that I am not writing this to ask for reimbursement or anything, I am simply trying to give some constructive criticism. I just think that maybe it needs a bit of toning down. It is possible that a higher level group could have handled the challenge, but if this was the intent, maybe an IC or OOC warning sign of some sort stressing that this was an extreme danger area might be a good idea. And, er, come to think of it -- was this 'Bloodhowl' sign actually it, and we simply too ignorant of ingame lore to realise that we were about to kick open the hornet's nest? (I am not saying that it should necessarily be replaced by something as obvious as "The Shargaas Legacy School for Champions of Gathmaar", though it's an idea.)

Regards,
~tOH.

[CakePlease]

I know that random encounter, and the whole set up basically points towards danger. You can pretty much firgure out your up against orcs and everything they have to offer. (And this is by no means the hardest encounter) As for orc shadow dancers, it just sounds like you had a bad time or were poorly prepared, these SD can spawn in pretty common areas of Ymph without any warning and while they can be deadly its a good reason not to travel alone/unprepared.

If you invade the lands of a tribe of orcs, don't expect it to be a cake-walk. Retreat is always an option. From how you've explained it, it seems like your front line did nothing to prevent the assassin from wiping you out one by one. I for one don't think this encounter requires any change and i welcome all these additional areas that crop up on occasion.

[The Old Hack]

I admit, next time I see an exploration area indicate the presence of Orcs I will probably advise retreat unless travelling together with a party consisting of Gaeseric, Master Tau, Gadyw Aberdenn, Volkmar Plowman and Duke Trenada. *scratches head*

[RuinedDesires]

Efu, is meant to be a challenge, it is meant to be scary, brutal and at times unforgiving.

You said yourself, you where given a sign warning you of the encounter ahead, at that point you had two options, walk away or proceed. You decided to go ahead, and died because of it. Be glad you could respawn and are now, wiser because of the experience.

[Mort]

Or just scout... I strongly doubt the orcs appeared on the transition. If they did, that's something I'm willing to look at.

[UnholyWon]

On this occassion I have to say we were ill prepared. Our front line rushed into the area ahead, and failed to protect the support. Honestly it felt like we were being PvP'd by either Mort or Caddies. It was a brutal onslaught.

In the past exploring areas, like the one described, it was common to exhaust your buff supply ahead of time, but be rewarded with a complete refill of buff potions and magical items. If properly prepared the reward is far greater then I've seen elsewhere on the server unless its a personalized quest.

I do think it was slightly over powered, but I also think the reward would have justified overwhelming force should our group had triumphed.

[HalflingPower]

Having done enough random areas to form an opinion, and having done that one of course. For that particular death hole, the danger is far greater than the reward, unless your party is optimized, cohesive and has team speak.

Just be happy you didn't get a hero version of the bad ass orcs like me.

[Adhesive]

Having done this particular random before, I can say that it is IMPERATIVE your group works as a team. If you rush ahead, as Unholy said, prepare to die. Always take it slow, leave room for the support to get to the frontline, leave room for the frontline to make a retreat if need be, and always have those invisipots hotkeyed. Especially if you are a mid-level party. It is doable, I have done it before with great care, but you can't be foolhardy or overconfident. Anytime you go into a random that requires two or more, always stress to your party that teamwork is a must.

[CakePlease]

This thread seems kinda pointless, it gives you plenty hints as to the challenge of the quest and as its been said you can send scouts like in the majority of encounters you can find on EFU:M. Its not as overpowered as some people seem to be making it out to be. Just sounds like you made a few bad decisions and died to some standard orc spawns.

[Damien]

They don't spawn in the transition. There is a problem with it though, when you enter the cave they are all too busy attacking the orcan statue than you.

[The Old Hack]

This thread seems kinda pointless,

Which is why you are keeping it alive by complaining about how pointless it is, of course. :)

But I have to disagree. The suggestion I made might have been pointless or less than useful. The responses I received -- including your first one, but not including your second one -- I found valuable and thought provoking. Bluntly put, I think I have been spoiled by doing a lot of ordinary scripted quests in which it doesn't matter so much if the formation is a bit loose and a couple of front liners are undisciplined. If nothing else, this has reminded me that fools rush in, and that all too often, rushing after the fools will just get you killed as well.

On my first NWN server I learned a good trick. That if nobody paid attention to me when I urged caution, they probably wouldn't pay attention if I loitered invisible where it was safe while they rushed in to get killed, either. Might be occasionally useful to remember this here, too.


Edit:

Or just scout... I strongly doubt the orcs appeared  on the transition. If they did, that's something I'm willing to look  at.

No, they did not appear on the transition. We had plenty of room at first. When they did come, they rushed us in almost a floodwave. No complaints there, we had time to run if we had had the brains to. But we never reached the cave, so I can't say if the statue problem persists.

[Professor Death]

I admit, next time I see an exploration area indicate the presence of Orcs I will probably advise retreat unless travelling together with a party consisting of Gaeseric, Master Tau, Gadyw Aberdenn, Volkmar Plowman and Duke Trenada. *scratches head*

I second that. Having been there I don't think we were particularly underprepared or had faulty tactics like are often pointed to. I had every buff possible from spells and potions up and it just wasn't enough.

[The Old Hack]

I second that. Having been there I don't think we were particularly underprepared or had faulty tactics like are often pointed to. I had every buff possible from spells and potions up and it just wasn't enough.

Ah... a word or two. Our tactics were not exactly faulty in the sense that we were being undisciplined, but they simply were not as tight as they could have been. Mind you, tightening them up would have meant retreating behind a corner, defending a choke point and having the option open for a front liner to step back and help the rear line if it got in trouble. And much less room for a disaster like that shadowdancer to operate in.

I realise that this seems almost impossibly anal-retentive, but truth be told, that is the standard to hold to if you want a really solid defense running. As it was, we did have a front line but it left a wide gap mobs could move past and also we had no cover against missiles. Given how much damage their archers did, the rear line might have fallen apart under their fire even if the shadowdancer hadn't been there.

[Professor Death]

Ah... a word or two. Our tactics were not exactly faulty in the sense that we were being undisciplined, but they simply were not as tight as they could have been. Mind you, tightening them up would have meant retreating behind a corner, defending a choke point and having the option open for a front liner to step back and help the rear line if it got in trouble. And much less room for a disaster like that shadowdancer to operate in.

I realise that this seems almost impossibly anal-retentive, but truth be told, that is the standard to hold to if you want a really solid defense running. As it was, we did have a front line but it left a wide gap mobs could move past and also we had no cover against missiles. Given how much damage their archers did, the rear line might have fallen apart under their fire even if the shadowdancer hadn't been there.

OOC of course, I saw that there was a choke that should have been used, but IC I stayed with the line until it was clear that things were BAD - I had enough buffs up to avoid the archer issues, but in the attempt at withdrawal, was taken out by the aforementioned shadowdancers and death attacks.

[WutWutWutWut]

Have a spot/listener in the group? Did the Shadowdancers have see invis? If not, invis pot.