Allow druids to rest in wilderness without food

[Kinslayer988]

With the new addition (which I enjoy) I noticed that Druids require it as well to rest in the wilderness. Seeing as they are mostly going to be resting in the wilderness, and as a convenience that they are accustomed to the wilderness, I ask that they do not require food to rest.

[Random_White_Guy]

It has been said in the past that WIlderness SUrvival plays into this from the EFUSS skill standpoint. Which makes sense for druids to have.

[Paha]

Shame on you if you're a druid without wilderness survival.

[PanamaLane]

Wilderness survival seems to only work about 20% of the time. We've discussed this in irc, it may just be bad luck on my rolls or whatever, but a vast majority of the time as a lvl 5 druid with 10 wilderness survival, I can not rest without food. If anything, it probably just needs to be ramped up.

Non-druids with wilderness survival should likewise be able to rest without food, but perhaps druids/rangers/barbarians can be given extra bonuses to their odds of success?

[putrid_plum]

I think it adds a chance to rest without food not totally remove it and as Howland once said, the food resting system is being tested and likely tweaked.  I don't think a druid should relentlessly be able to rest over and over and over like they do whenever they please without any food ever.  That might just be a personal opinion though.

You could of course hunt for food in the wilds or forage for food, I don't know it's an idea.

[Hubble Bubble]

Shame on you if you're a druid without wilderness survival.

I'd like to respectfully disagree with you, Paha.

Druids have a fairly limited EFUSS point score, gaining significantly fewer points if they do not build their stats specifically to accommodate them. There are certainly better options than Wilderness survival, both for concept and mechanically. From my point of view, Wilderness Survival would better suit a nature orientated Sorcerer, Cleric, or classes that aren't instantly recognizable as Nature orientated. Simply being a Druid or Ranger surely gives the gravitas that you're versed in surviving the Wilderness? I would compare it to  rolling a Human male and taking points in 'being a Human man'.

In the setting as it is at the moment Climbing feels fairly crucial for Druids, there are plenty of areas that need climbing to access and with lower scores for passing the checks, Climbing feels instantly more necessary than Wilderness Survival. If you want to ever practice Alchemy or Herbalism then you have to invest heavily into them, especially when considering that Druids do not naturally gain favour when using Alchemy. From a flavourful point of view, Herbalism is not necessarily something that all Druids would practice, but for the more mystic character it is certainly something that should be encouraged.

There are several other EFUSS skills that seem far more flavourful, and far more worthy of point investment than Wilderness Survival (Umberlant with Swimming etc.) and I maintain that realistically, Druids and Rangers are by default a wilderness class and as such the skill does not really give them any flavourful, or mechanical benefit when compared to Sorcerers (who do not necessarily have to have anything at all to do with Nature, or wilderness survival)

It doesn't seem overly hard to forage food at the moment, so I wouldn't say that it is that big of a deal regarding Druid resting; however, I'd like to stress that my Druid has Zero points in Wilderness survival and has passed the check, and needed no food several times when resting.

[Pandip]

I think it adds a chance to rest without food not totally remove it and as Howland once said, the food resting system is being tested and likely tweaked.  I don't think a druid should relentlessly be able to rest over and over and over like they do whenever they please without any food ever.  That might just be a personal opinion though.

You could of course hunt for food in the wilds or forage for food, I don't know it's an idea.

The wilderness survival "roll" (for the lack of a better term) determines precisely that -- whether or not you can forage food in your immediate environment for the sake of resting.

I feel like it's unfair to say that druids presently have (or for that matter have ever had) the ability to rest "over and over and over" without any food. I've always assumed the druid's ability to sleep anywhere without a campfire or a bedroll was represented in character by a keen awareness of the natural environment and how to survive and thrive off it. This is why druids could only rest freely in wilderness locations. Admittedly, that generally accounted for everywhere important, but the point still stands. On the other hand, other classes needed a campfire and a bedroll to do the same thing in the wilderness. I always assumed the campfire was to represent the consumption of food, or the cooking of such, along with perhaps the need to stay warm, while the bedroll represented the need for certain comforts to get a good, healthy rest that would allow for prayers, spell book reviewing, and so on. Whatever the case, adding the aspect of actually needing to be carrying food seems like an unnecessary complication to this mundane process, requiring additional inventory space, gold management, etc.

I dislike the EFUSS wilderness survival in its current usage in the resting system as well. First off, even if it was absolutely necessary to include, it does nothing. Having 10 points invested in it, which is a particularly large investment for any character, apparently does very little to alleviate the need to go foraging for food. More importantly, however, wilderness survival serves as a mechanic and character attribute that is already thoroughly represented in game, which unfortunately leads to comments and assumptions like this:

Shame on you if you're a druid without wilderness survival.

Respectfully, I don't think this is something we should hear or see about a EFUSS skill. If druids who don't take wilderness survival are apparently being shameful about their allocation choices, then why is wilderness survival even a skill? Especially when it's creating the assumption that a class highly attuned with nature -- so attuned that it can calm down wild animals and is such a natural element of the wilderness that most animals ignore its presence -- begins with the same amount of "wilderness survival" as a half-orc fighter, who doesn't even have the option of taking ranks of animal empathy.

EFUSS should enhance the level of character depth we're able to represent in game by offering a mechanic for skills and abilities that are not properly represented by the NWN engine. Wilderness survival does the exact opposite of this. Taking a look at the other EFUSS skills, painting is perhaps the only other skill that conflicts with mechanical representations already implemented in game (a bard's). The other skills allow players to enhance their character's repertoire of abilities. Maybe a druid isn't local to bodies of water and isn't as good of a swimmer as the aforementioned half-orc fighter, who is in fact a sailor and Umberlant. Instead, maybe that druid has always been local to caverns, caves, and underground areas, and has a very intimate knowledge of mining and the various rocks and ores that can be found in such places. This is something that enhances a concept, rather than hindering it.



Ultimately, this is probably something of a moot point. As things currently stand, the food system feels like more of an occasional annoyance than it does a genuine hindrance, and I suppose it could be argued that in certain ways it can help add a layer of roleplaying when food is needed. Either way, it doesn't make a huge difference on the experience or the difficulty of the server whether the food system is implemented or not. But I'd rather roleplay and emote swimming in the Scamander and spearing fish for food as an interactive, character-building roleplaying experience than have it be mechanically represented as the occasional hassle that crops up whenever I've been paying more attention to my IC interactions than how much fish I have in my inventory.

As a disclaimer, I (of course) don't mean any of this as personal insult or anything of that sort. It's just my two ducats of constructive criticism on the way the whole thing works right now, and my experiences with it so far.

[LiAlH4]

When running events, I often use wilderness survival as a placeholder for tracking, general knowledge about the world around you, for specific information about local flora and fauna, etc.

If you are a druid and have not invested in this skill, you certainly won't be actively penalized, but you will likely miss out on information despite getting some credit for simply being a druid.

[Howlando]

As the person who came up with EFUSS and Wilderness Survival I think I can definitively state that it is by no means required to take as a druid or ranger, but probably a good idea if you can spare the EFUSS points (something easier to do as PCs start to break past the rather low limits at the moment!). It's fine to start off with Climbing or Swimming that are more relevant to the concept... there need be no further discussion of the matter.

As for the question of whether druids should still need food to rest in the wilderness, I don't think it's so bad. There's a lot of druid perks out there specific to the class that makes "normal" questing less necessary; so is it so bad that having to spend a little time foraging and gathering food (which is kind of what I see druids doing anyway) is such a bad thing? If you want to play a PC that is based off of survival in the wilderness away from the comforts of civilization, then surely being engaged in the RP of surviving is what you'd be looking for in a playing experience?

[Knight Of Pentacles]

There are now sources of food in the wilderness that can be harvested so I don't see this as much as a problem. (Other than the obvious skinning and herb-gathering).

[Heavyfog]

Get some oil, make a fire, cook some cave fish. Problem solved.  If I were a druid I would have a fish and some way of making fire in my pack at all times.

[keats73]

While not a 'fan' of the food system in general, I do not think this is really a big issue.

I made a random druid PC just to check the stuff out and out of 10 rests, with W.S. not even maxed out, I never eaten any of the stuff in his pack.

Maybe a clarification on 'mechanical' possibilities of acquiring food could be of use?

EDIT: Though, after reading through Pandip's post:

Respectfully, I don't think this is something we should hear or see  about a EFUSS skill. If druids who don't take wilderness survival are  apparently being shameful about their allocation choices, then why is  wilderness survival even a skill? Especially when it's creating the  assumption that a class highly attuned with nature -- so attuned that it  can calm down wild animals and is such a natural element of the  wilderness that most animals ignore its presence -- begins with the same  amount of "wilderness survival" as a half-orc fighter, who doesn't even  have the option of taking ranks of animal empathy.

... I must say I wholeheartedly agree with his sentiment and logic.

[Howlando]

...I can definitively state that it is by no means required to take....there need be no further discussion of the matter.

And again, I'd emphasize the point that if I was druid or wilderness PC going around and foraging for some food is precisely what I personally would enjoy doing, and it is fair counter to the considerable benefits specific to Druids that are available in EFUR.

I think the food system is very nice in a lot of ways and not at all unduly inconvenient. Of course it will continue to be refined.