Remove Improved Invisibility

[cmenden]

This is just a suggestion, so please don't get too vehement in your denials xD

I feel like the improved invisibility spell is so much more powerful than all other mitigation type spells that it feels like a "spell tax" for questing

The suggestion is basically that Improved Invisibility be removed and that over time the game could be rebalanced for it not existing

Free us wizards and I guess sorcerers too from our shackles!

[Bacon_Cheese_Burger]

An interresting suguestion. Perhaps it would be more simple to nerf it.. Maybe only 15% concealment +5 for SF illusion and +10% for GSF illusion. it would still give a good amount of concealment for a decent period of time.

[putrid_plum]

I strongly agree it's just extremely powerful for a rank 4 spell, it makes a lot of quests very very very easy and then the PvP side.

I would say some sort of lower concealment or if possible perhaps make it just re-invis the target for the spells duration like how the Stalker Perk works.

[Electrohydra]

I've been a big fan of having the concealement scale with SF/GSF Illusion for a while now. The spell is indeed just..... much better then anything else for questing. And GSF Illusion is kind of lacking compared to other GSFs, this would give a nice quality improvement for illusionists. Maybe 30/40/50% So unchanged for dedicated illusionists, nerfed for others.

[Diabl0658]

I want to be able to learn stoneskin without people yelling at me about my sorcerer build. I support this nerf.

[Ziya]

The suggestion is basically that Improved Invisibility be removed and that over time the game could be rebalanced for it not existing

My concern regards the second part of your suggestion.

A lot of high-end quests and Ring challenges are tuned, IMO, over the many years, to expect Improved Invisibility. If you remove it without rebalancing the game, I am of the view - implicitly shared by you and understood by you - that PVE content would be imbalanced against players. I doubt that DMs are very keen on taking the time and tedium to rebalance the quests and PVE content. My fear then is that we'll end up with the 'easy' part dealt with (i.e. II nerfed) but the important and tedious second part ignored.

[VanillaPudding]

There are other balance factors to consider outside of quests. (Would be a pretty large hit to casters in PvP for example, and they already have to deal with max HP and massive saves of a population that is ever increasing in skill, broadly stated at least)


It is not negatively impacting anything in the game world. I have done pretty much all of the content with and without the spell and, while it is a nice luxury, it is not as impactful or game changing as some people believe when it comes to PVE content. 

[Renouncer]

If it is nerfed perhaps have it so that the caster can still obtain 50% miss-chance. It's one of the few saving graces a d4 class has.

[Vlaid]

I've suggested various tweaks to this spell for similar reasons, but more because it's really hard to balance content around. Either content is trivial with it or too hard/taxing on resources without it if you balance around it being present. II is probably the primary reason why to introduce difficulty dispel has to be part of the equation ATM.

You would need to make a series of changes to phase out II as the defacto mega quest buff.

Improved Invisibility could become a self only buff so it won't nerf mages personally.  Although I'm not convinced it's such a massive burden that mages would need to drink displacement like anyone else when they need concealment (especially not when they'd still have stoneskin to fall back on anyway).

Displacement would need some kind of change otherwise extended displacement would just replace Improved Invisibility

Probably some other factors I'm not thinking of off the top of my head,

[Random_White_Guy]

My main issue is Circle IV is already spread thin and also where "Concepts" start to really shine. Necromancers get their spells, Evokers get their big hitters, etc etc.

I don't want to have to take Imp Invis on a Bard x Sorcerer or Imp Invis as "ABSOLUTE QUEST MANDATORY SACRIFICE ALL CIRCLE IV TO IMP INVIS" that only gets 3-4 wizard slots only to have Chad Questington make me feel like a noob or a shit head because I am trying to RP my class appropriately and thematically to a perk. In the "Before time" when Sorcerers only had 2 Circle IV spells by level 9 at level 8 I took Polymorph on Suicide Rahim with custom wildshape and PCs still ripped into me as being useless or unfun because I couldn't "Juice them".

A Wizard who tries to diversify their spells cast in the Circle IV range may as well be a Leper if you're a diviner or etc in the way some people have taken to playing this game of ours.

Also, more importantly

Most Quest Loot taps out at circle II of which there is way more Sorc than Wizard

And most DM Loot taps out at Circle 3

So even your most rounded, looted, and more concept has to sacrifice Circle IV for "The Quest Spell".

Alternatively-

SF Illusion and GSF Illusion turned DIsplacement into Polymorph rules style extensions.

Potion Displacement = 1 round/level NWN Vanilla
Casted Base Displacement upped to = 2 round /level
SF Illusion = 3 round/level
GSF Illusion = 4 round/level

Extended Displacement (Circle IV) for GSF Illusion would then be 8 rounds/level.

If the argument that a "Spell Tax" is mandatory?

Let's make the Tax a lower circle spell, and make Illusionists more coveted in something they can control

Because after all GSF Illusion does nothing for Imp invis and hardly makes you RP as some master illusionist~.

[VanillaPudding]

Based on this feedback EFU has put in a new feature where, upon leveling up, you can now pick your own spells and improved invisibility is not automatically in your spellbook.

Enjoy

[Providence]

That sounds a little too powerful. Now, instead of II and whatever other spells, you can pick the other spells plus one more other spell. That seems too flexible and flavorful.

[Legebril]

Do not take it from spellcasters, it will be just way too taxing for pvp scenarios.
Besides there are more challenging quests that would be really tuff to do without improved invis.
Ogres, Orogs undead of 92 and other hard hitting quests.  I am not saying that it's impossible to do those quests w/o Improved Invis, but it would be more taxing resource wise and rewards of those quests would not cover the costs of extra healings spent, blurrs and other stuff.