Orc Quest Part I needs another look at

[Daemonic Daz]

I done Orcs with a rather capable group before and have to say that its turned ridiculously hard. I know that it was changed to avoid the exploitment of the AI but the current layout of the map as well as the way the AI works is kind of... Odd and crushing for even the most combat effective characters.

The Orcs just seems to mass up and then surround you, making it virtually impossible to escape sometimes. I know the generic answer is going to be "Don't get swarmed" but its not that simple sometimes. Secondly when you attempt to pull back to the Stonehand Coast, the hordes that are chasing you down all transition ahead of you due to the way the engine works so you are physically trapped between them in a confined space and have to fight your way out again.

I've not heard of any groups save one thats completed it effectively and even then that may have been a one off. Perhaps one of the these suggestions below would make it more favorable.

1. Increase the respawn timing between the trickle of orc reinforcements Give us a few more seconds to get prepared so the quest is abit easier

2. Remove the continuous orc reinforcement spawn and have set waves that spawn once the previous wave is killed This will let groups coordinate better and work more effectively as a team as opposed to being completely surrounded whilst orcs are still charging at them.

Theres still the OOC metagaming factor you have to worry about people memorizing what comes with each wave but theres always OOC factors in EFU we have to deal with.

3. Remove the quest all together and come up with something else to replace it A makeshift Orc Keep we have to raid, Sharboneths men have been captured by orcs. Anything to replace the quest and to renew interest in it.

I know it sounds like a "CANT POWERQUEST ON ORCS 1" but its nothing like that. I just used to think people were overeacting when they said the revamped orcs was ridiculously hard, now I can safely eat my words and agree with them.


Thoughts?

[Equinox]

A quest where i have twice now had to -spam- my strongest healing and pvp buffs just to stay alive. Is not fun. I've been on dm quests that aren't this hard.

Doing this quest on a dwarf with FE orc, was impossible, and today a repeat disaster. Tbh part one makes part two look like a walkthrough.

I can fully understand the reasons for making the changes to this quest. But now noone will be doing this. It's like faicng a server invasion, with no chokepoints, and maximum 8 man team.

In agreement with daz, either make it realistically beatable. or get rid of it altogether. You shouldnt need a team of lvl 9 fighter powerbuilds and wizards, with full pvp buffs and a mass of healing, to beat this quest.

[Egon the Monkey]

This has chewed up and spat out all but one team I've heard of doing it, including a team consisting of 7 of the *dwarf* faction, against *orcs*. It is hard, and not in a fun way either. There is no tactics involved for this, no plan beyond "whore potions, hope you don't get a dispel". There's no variation, no pacing just wave upon wave of orcs. It has nowhere to take cover or fall back from fireballs, no traps, no locks, no doors. It is dull and deadly, and now harder than Wild Orcs Part 2. Also, without the Sharboneth Redshirts to hold them off for a while, and with the earlier start time for the waves, you have no time to orient yourselves, lay traps and set up.

I think this needs more variety. For example:
A small assault at you, then you attack a (trapped) orc spotter post after the wave's defeated. Once you open the outpost gate, another wave comes at you. Hell, maybe there's a repeater ballista with a locked ammo crate. Then you break out and hit another orc position, and then through to the camp, where the orcs are counter-charging you. There's that same big battle feel, but paced, with breaks, scenery changes and positions to defend or retreat to. All the most interesting quests have variations in pace and environment.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

This quest has chewed up even team elf. Not fun.

[Drakill Tannan]

If i'm not mistaken Thomas, team elf did complete it succesfully a couple times with only one character dead once. But of cource, we needed our uber level 9 cleric to do it. But i agree it is more dificult that it used to, and should be tonned down.

However, if it isn't, i don't mind. I do have some other complains:

1.- The last two times i was in that quest the loot was very lame, no good consumables and no good items, just lots of trash. And we were like 6 or 7 people.

2.- And the most important one: what egon said: It is just a big enocunter, there is little strategy other than "Go to the wall so the orcs don't come from behind us" and while it's fun, it's not really an "advenutre", it doesn't feel like a raid to the orc camp, just a horde of orcs that you casually encountered (especially because they come to you, not you to them).

I think it should be completly redesigned, something like Egon said. Make it feel like you are asaulting the camp.

[Equinox]

You are missing the point. It's been changed. there is no wall.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

Mort turned up the number of spawns per wave that appear now.

[Nihm]

To be fair Trannyth was the only decent fighter our team had today.  Our team was pretty worthless in general and probably isn't the best barometer for this.

[IxTheSpeedy]

Just to clarify, team elf has rocked this quest a number of times.  We've also been spanked once or twice because we didn't have the right party.  It's all about a good balance of characters and teamwork, just like any hard quest really.  I will agree though, this quest is damn hard.  Particularly so on the frontliners.  It is however one of my favorite quests at the moment.

I think the key to this is that you need more than just a few tanks, you need backup characters as well.  Archers, a mage, a healer, etc.

[Semli]

The real key is creating artificial barriers with your support characters. Sorcerors/Wizards should be laying down cloud spells (extended works good) while archers mow down the sad pandas that get caught in it, frontliners chewing up whatever makes the save on the other side. Entangle, Grease, Web, etc. are all also pretty good for this. Even an alchemist who's got choking powder to burn can turn into a fucking hero on this quest.

Make use of summons. While burning spellslots for this purpose is probably unwise, using summoning items is not. They can't hold off hordes, but they can form very temporary barriers that allow people to rebuff, heal, or finish off orcs which can make all the difference in the end. You'll likely want to go with something with a little more HP and AC than your warrior rat, though.

Not sure if the rewards equal the level of strategy or the relatively necessary strength of the party required to conquer it, but it can be done in its current incarnation. Hope that helped.

[Egon the Monkey]

The reward's pretty much unchanged. It in no way equals the level of supplies used. Plus, yes that suggestion of yours would work but only if you can get a large, well organised party with a lot of casters. Even then, I can still see it going horribly wrong easily, and it's still deadly and uninteresting as a large open field rather than being the "lead-up" quest for an Orcs II trip

[Semli]

I don't think its uninteresting at all, really. The area doesn't have the most interesting design, admittedly, but the deadliness of the mobs makes up for it in my opinion.

You definately need at least two casters to get all the buffs and conjurations though. Probably the deadliest part of this quest is you need a real good "team" in comparison to other QAs where a very strong party member can carry everyone else. Just grouping up with whoever is online is a recipe for failure.

[Gippy]

I think it was planned to be changed a bit. I don't know if these changes have been made.

[IxTheSpeedy]

I'll just post a second thought here.  If you think about it, you are assaulting an Orcan village with most likely under 8 people...  Think about how insane that is?...  Orcs on EFU:A are asskickers...

I'm wondering, why can't one increase the party size past 8?  Is that a hardcoded limit?  Or is it because of lag constraints?  This would be an interesting quest if you could bring say 12 pc's...  Eight warriors holding the line with support characters behind.  Would be epic...

[TheWastesAreFrozen]

I'd rather the difficulty stayed and the rewards were better and with less chance of totally sucking. Sometimes you get those chest spawns with all the garbage and nothing worthwhile .