Daze

[Damien]

Fireball should damage other orcs.

[Drakill Tannan]

Taking into account the few spells wizard have, having the option to daze a monster for 2 rounds 4 times/day would be good. By getting the monster levels to level 5 and over at almost every quest, daze becomes useless.

I agree PvP wise, it should remain as it is.

However, i'd really like it to be usable against "something". Can i ask why the monsters have such a high level in low level quests? It makes sleep and daze nearly useless, i think that should change.

[The Crimson Magician]

Make enchanters have useful spells for questing that just aren't buffs, IMO. >_>

Right now, I can really only see them be useful in PvP, as is, with hold person.

And buffbots are treated like dirt. :(

[Drakill Tannan]

Oh yeah, i've complained at that too since i jouned EFU:A
But DMs don't really seem to care about mechanics if isn't PvP.

[ExileStrife]

Drakill Tannan, you are completely oblivious to how strong spells already are against NPCs and dumb AI.

[ScottyB]

How about offsetting the removal of a level cap by reducing the DC by 1 for every 2 levels the target is over level 5? This is kind of a "double tax" since higher-level targets should have naturally higher saves in the first place, but helps out PCs who maybe made WIS their dump stat, or NPC/monsters that weren't built properly.

[Mort]

Yeah. And lets make 60gp 25 charge wands of daze be able to have 50% chance to disable any CR 5 monsters n` higher. Even a 10-12 DC is useful. Especially Will.

No compromise <_<

Please remember to be respectful of other posters and not call their suggestion idiotic or stupid. It's not nice and me doing it from time to time is enough jerk for 1 forum.

[ScottyB]

You're forgetting that suggestion is for when it's memory-cast, not item-activated. The wizard/sorc has to actively choose to prepare/burn a low-chance Daze over a 1d4+1 damage ping.

When put that way, we're allowing casters to diversify. Otherwise there's nothing to prepare but Ray of Frost/Acid Splash/Electric Jolt/LIGHT, so they'll spam their little damage cantrips for a guaranteed 2 to 5 damage each (assuming no vulnerabilities). And because Daze still requires a DC, it always has a chance of failing - unlike Ray of Frost (assuming no resistance).

I mean, Electric Jolt doesn't stop working on creatures over level 5.

[N/A]

You cannot compare a damaging spell to something that immobilizes the enemy in some way. They are cantrips, the first spells wizards learn before they can do much of anything. Before they can cast a simple, single magic missile. Cantrips are not meant to do much.

[ScottyB]

Being able to move, drink, and retain AC (biggest perk to immobilizing a target!) hardly seems to be "immobilizing." Since PCs are likely to be in groups they'll already be using walk speed to form up, anyways, too.

Regardless of whether or not cantrips "aren't meant to do much," some cantrips are still able to do something throughout a PC's career. It's wasteful game design to include class features that "expire" or, when a choice is available, are clearly inferior to other features; players enjoy being able to make meaningful choices, and the presence of something that could be cool if it didn't suck only serves to frustrate them.

I'm willing to wager that if this is done, then 5 months from now no one will have managed to make Daze into something to be feared. I think I have some money to collect regarding the Storm Domain, while it's on my mind.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

Perhaps a compromise?

We have a trial period where the Level block on Daze is removed. If this leads to wildly out of wack accomplishments on a PC CASTING DAZE AND NOT FROM A WAND, we can replace it.



Just a thought.

[Nufferz]

Does anyone realize that when you gain levels as a wizard you can take more spells that effectively do the same thing if not more effectively against any level creature?

It's not like you lose the ability to cast daze, you just can't use it on something that is powerful. But when you are low level it is a pretty useful spell- now suddenly you become level 5 and it is useless? No. It had the exact same use but when you face that gnoll elite instead of the lowly, normal gnoll you use a hold person if you are really pooping your pants.

If you are going to make daze capless, then you will basically give wizards five disabling spells per day that can take down any NPC's ability to attack for a significant amount of time. Who the hell is going to take ray of frost when they can just prepare that awesome daze shit?

[derfo]

how about a compromise where we don't make dumb daze suggestions when we quit a million times already

[Drakill Tannan]

Just lower the average monster levels to 4 IMO.

[Halfbrood]

That would totally destroy the challenge.