V4 January, 2019 Plot Feedback Thread

[Howlando]

I hope you have all been enjoying.

We're happy to hear any feedback you might want to provide.

The good, the bad, the ugly.


Here is a thread, perhaps, that will be reviewed in the distant future.... like many that came before it.

[DYBIL]

Perhaps I am biased in that two of my PCs were involved with the Red Banner. During the time I played, a big part of that player faction's goals involved Magnatz. It felt really anti-climatic to (as far as I understood from IG activity) have successfully rallied the 3 factions (Spellguard, Exile Collective, Covenant) into mounting a collaborative assault against Magnatz only to have him suddenly and randomly get written off by the Monument of Hubris. Then with nothing else going for the faction, we had a nice conclusion event to send our PCs off into retirement (and for most of us, the fugue).

Perhaps the player-side Magnatz plot was just too convoluted for the DMs to facilitate during the period of its activity. Before the Covenant was willing to lend its strength to the war effort, they wanted Mycopolis reclaimed. The Exile Collective wanted their own guarantees (I believe Fort Mur? and likely there were other things like control of the lift). And the Spellguard had their own demands. All of these deals were struck by Rana (VP) and at some point the Red Banner had successfully reached an accord for what needed to be done in order to receive the cooperation from all 3 factions in mounting the war effort. But at the end of the day I guess there were no DMs interested in facilitating the pushing of this plot from these directions and ultimately Magnatz was just written off.

[Pig-a-dig]

Personally I believe that all of the current events have been excellent, even if I haven't been able to attend a significant number of them.

My only complaint stems from something that is beyond your control, namely that the recent EE patch came at such an unfortunate time.

[Rookie]

A few comments:

• Plot wise: the event to destroy the elder brain of Ysinode was, hands down, the most epic few hours of my little RP career.
• Logistics wise: I really appreciated the ability to do pretty much any quest, despite my PCs level.  It was a very refreshing change of pace.

Looking forward to what's coming.

[XzarWizrobe]

Currently, there's so many uncertainties! Even as we wrap up so many old plots... So many questions.
Where do the ties between the Illithids and Far Stars begin?! Are there any?! What about the Man in the Mask, hmm?! Who really is he?! Where has he been?!
Personally, I hope there's more about the Far Stars to come.
But otherwise, the flow has been great. This impending DOOM, the slow demise of all the DM factions, the feel of the destroyed Sanctuary... The team has done well showing and making it feel as though we do not have a fighting chance in all this.

I am prepared to focus hard on the story and lore that is to come.

[Moonlighter]

I'll buck this weird trend of complaining about old stuff to complain about some more recent stuff instead, if that's cool. I understand you had no real set plan for what would happen with the Elder Brain, but for future reference can we never ever do the thing where we split up and OOCly vote what we OOCly want to happen without roleplay ever again?

That definitely broke the flow of the event and my immersion badly, and the only other time we'd seen that before was for a similarly pivotal moment (the Dhimani vs Loyalists brawl in the House of Governance preceding the murder of Melinda Bresley) that badly tainted things too, as players who were on the Loyalist side immediately gave up and went neutral when they saw the odds stacking up. In that case, some of them even then went on to pull the hat trick of "picking sides" and went from loyalist, to neutral, to actively participate in the rebellion and even reap the rewards of it (like Clorinda and Itan, who both received promotions.)

Those situations are definitely far more difficult to manage from the DM side, so I understand why you felt that they needed to happen, but at the same time the roleplaying more or less ground to a halt and everything was reduced to a "oh this is what is happening now" situation. I feel like especially in the case of the Sanctuary vs Attacking the Elder Brain Vote that the stakes were muddled and confused, and without any sort of opportunity for a robust debate, or even "splitting up" (god forbid) it more or less just railroaded even the people who might not participate otherwise into fighting a deadly, deadly boss.

After all, what other choice do they have at that point?

While I'm spreading my salt around, that boss genuinely was the epitome of nonsense. Cloning Stein, an older PC from before the DOOM era fresh out of a lengthy retirement and the most obviously strong character present, felt like a lazy attempt to add difficulty to it. The Purple Steins weren't even hostile at first, which meant that it was actually difficult to pick out what was happening in the chaos as they were slamming down potions of True Strike and assassinating people.

The brain boss itself, well I can't really comment beyond that my character took 200 damage during a massive lagspike and just instantly dropped dead on the spot. Through Stoneskin, Stone Bones, and some innate Bludgeoning resistance on my gear to boot. On top of that, the event was advertised as raise/respawn allowed to a certain point (the 5 minutes it took us to get through the gates) and then raises only after that, but then raises weren't allowed afterwords which more or less salted the wound of "instant double mindblast death" for me.

Ultimately, the characters that were rewarded for the attack on Ysinode weren't even the bold ones that were ready to throw themselves headlong into the maw of danger, but instead the people who hung back and did very little until the fight was well under way. It seems sort of counter-intuitive to reward cowardice, but I guess that's how you survive these big server changing events.

And in the aftermath, it ultimately seemed like 46(!) people sacrificed their PCs lives for nothing, as the death of the Elder Brain didn't really have much affect on the Dread's ability to coordinate an attack upon and besiege Enginetown immediately afterword, which is why my character fought in the first place.

Oh well. I sort of learned a lesson here, in that I don't think these big events are my speed. I definitely won't be going out of my way to participate in them from now on.

Beyond that specific event, which was more or less the only one I was able to attend, due to my schedule (what a one to pick, am I right?) I will more or less mention that it would've been cool if things had a more natural flow to them. There was talk of putting effort towards player initiatives and the like, and resolving plots to their natural end but I didn't really see that until the last week or two when everything was happening at once.

[Wench]

I haven't been able to join in on a lot these past couple months but what I will say is the events I have played on have been amazing, like literally, movie quality story, fantastic level design, and just really, really fun.

Another side note, the writing, good lord, the writing has literally made me stop what I was doing, and go back to reread something just because it was so cool. Its rare I get into reading much but some of the DM shouts or rumor threads being pumped out recently have been top notch.

Also the DM team has been really  8) about letting characters get final little plots or events done before the end which is really nice.

Can't wait to see what happens next!  ;)

[DYBIL]

Having "open" questing with regards to the level limits being essentially removed has been amazing for inclusivity and expanding the opportunities for character interaction.

I've always found questing with a character to be just as much of an experience in character interaction as lounging about the hub due to the high quality RP found on EfU. There is no pause or break in the "adventure RP" due to having to stop at a quest bubble and go, oh sorry guys I forgot this quest is 7 cap and I'm 8.

It just feels like a smoother gameplay experience where you can sit down and enjoy the RP and adventure without having to worry about anything that might otherwise break your immersion.

[derkot]

Good:
Players was doing good things to moving their personal plots and DMs is always friendly and wishing to help. Some DMs always was happy to help with some even not important stuff you I ping them in discord or write them PM. Everyone was doing good work to change server in their character's views and EFU always feels very alive.

Bad:
DM factions need some improvement. I think what be part of DM faction it should always be something very important and prestige . In general I liked all DM factions and their plots. Some of factions had less attention from DMs, other factions had more attention than needed but in general all was good.

Nature and Paladin themes was needed more love as well.
After closing Ark faction and closing nature start, there was no any hub, place and plots what nature theme characters wish to explore and try push. Only ooze theme left which was standing as opposite to Ark.
Paladins and other strong-goodly characters always had very hard time and their lives was always short, sneaky and lonely. They would play in small groups or die in horrible deaths when they trying fight against half EFU all alone. I feel what paladins and other goodly-theme characters had about same problems as nature theme characters. They had Fount, what was limited by 3 characters which was very cool faction, but again, I felt like good-theme characters with paladins had hard times with places where to meet and to push their plots.

Machine and Underdark theme makes it hard to play nature and good teams. Of course it is more problem of setting. But in my opinion, I think in future there can be made some adjustment and improvement to make EFU interesting and comfortable for all classes and alignments.

Ugly:
Please never do thing what you did with Ark. I discussed it with you in discor but again, please never never solve plots on background. I do not feel myself anymore bad or sad but this thing was ugly for me. :c

[Random_White_Guy]

On the whole it has been great to see the rise of Streaming events. It's a technology that has been around quite a while but to see it utilized in EFU in this method is truly a spectacle and a very great addition to public DM events. The old Elmo arenas were great, but so too was it nice to see DM quests and etc, and more. Adding that level of opportunity for people to see things they miss would be a great addition to the "General Rumors and Gossip" threads and trends of the server going forward. The last push of EFUR has been a great capstone but two thing I'd like to mention:

- Rentable Properties either tied to associations or factions was crippling.

- Please reduce/alter Associations going forward.

A) EFU:M's heavy introduction of associations was an interesting trend, but having endured them all of EFU:R it has been a wholly disheartening experience. One of EFU's greatest abilities is the means for PCs to be able to create their own factions, push their own agendas, and try to gain traction in the world at large. While I understand not every PC wants to be involved in an "Application Required Faction" and not all PCs want to run a PC faction, associations gave a vast swath of mechanical and RP position without any onus of quality.

B) An independent group like the Scriveners was an A+ "Association", or even hypothetically if the House of Knowledge was moved to minor faction a small faction requiring no application with Mantle = Membership in Minor DM faction, or something similar would have been great. However to have every major DM Application Faction have a subsidiary faction just felt wrong. I'm all for more involvement in player activity but if PCs are given such massive incentive to join the associations it basically undercuts an already heavily saturated player populace for PC factions.

C)Worst of all though: It takes away any responsibility or effort for DM faction PC Members to recruit PCs to join their cause.

Sure, the fringe or outlandish concepts had to do some effort to win people over but in my time playing 3 agents in the 5 years of  EFUR it became grotesquely easy by comaprison on my last PC  to recruit PCs for any activity or any agenda, regardless of what that pursuit was.

The Spellguard could be as malicious as they wanted because new PCs would always churn out to play Watchers or Warders The Vault Dwellers had no reason to try and becovert or political because one more PC would want to play a Grey Skinned Blue Knight Freakazoid The Covenant had no reason to hold public rallies to turn support or spend resources to win over the populace or etc.

It's why I feel so much of EFU's late-end strife between the factions bottomed out and became a heavy PvP focused endeavor was because there was no requirement to do any otherwise.  Simply slap on a nametag to a new concept and join the fight.  There was no RP consequence because associations were constant feeder systems for new henchmen, fresh recruits, and pre-fabricated concepts meant to join up and aid DM Application PCs.

Overall the introduction of EE Has brought a ton of great mechanics, new PCs, and more.  I'm eager to see where EFU goes next but I can say first hand the amount of difficulty faced in trying to organize PC efforts has been a nightmare compared to other chapters.

[Pandip]

First off, I want to say that EFU is an incredibly unique experience that I have never and will never find a replacement for. This server has been a big part of my life in numerous ways. EFU:R has had its ups and downs but I'm genuinely happy that things are moving forward, plots are happening, and both players and DMs seem to be really engaged. For the first time in a while (ever?), EFU:R feels legitimately apocalyptic and terrifying.

Going back to the surface was great fun. Dunwarren Machine apparitions and their look into the past have been some of my favorite "random" NPC interactions. While the Dhimani rebellion had its issues, I thought the content of the event itself was great and the Melinda Bresley reveal, despite being expected, was excellent.

However, my outlook on the last couple months of activity has perhaps not been as positive as everyone else's in this thread. I'll try to keep my criticism from dragging on and feeling punchy instead of constructive.

I think my primary problem is that player driven narrative and player autonomy have both taken a steep nose dive. I feel like even the illusion of player choice has completely evaporated over the last several weeks. To name a few examples:

-- The OOC break in roleplaying for the Dhimani revolution and the choice that players were forced to make felt entirely OOC, which is not ideal. Many people switched sides or abstained because of the visual of having so many people on Dhimani's side. I understand this was an awkward thing to handle logistically, but it would have probably been better served by sides being private and characters being teleported to separate rooms. It was also incredibly awkward that immediately after the HoG bloodbath, the storming of Serena Tower became a hugely inclusive event that neutral and anti-Spellguard PCs bandwagoned onto, which was frustrating for anyone who committed to a side. There were a few instances of people who went onto that event railing against the "new Spellguard" immediately after they got their rewards, which was just silly and jarring and unnecessary.

-- The Final Instructions felt rushed and forced. There were undoubtedly some very exhilarating events related to completing the Final Instructions, but everything happened in the last month when these have been around for over six months. It feels like all the interesting ideas and plots related to the Final Instructions before the last thirty days were moot. We spent ages thinking these were things we had to prepare for, search for, come up with ideas for, when the reality is we were run through them at break neck speeds to satisfy a deadline.

-- Ysinode was rough and has made me consider skipping large scale events in the future. Dying at Ysinode with a nearly year long character felt really, really bad.  I'm not going to belabor the team with more "double tap" memes. However, the lack of raises felt poorly handled and has made me lackluster about EFU for the past week as I meander my way through a (fun!) but seemingly meaningless character that will probably not make it through tomorrow long enough to see anything cool with his staggering 18 CMW potions.

-- The OOC decision at Ysinode is also a big sore spot for me, for a number of reasons. The fact that it was handled as a purely OOC democratic decision with almost no emphasis on IC discussion or circumstances was rough. The Spellguard Operative, two Agents, and Sergeant were the ones that IC wanted to return to Sanctuary but they were overruled and had the carrier ostensibly taken away from them because of an OOC decision. This completely broke the flow and immersion of the circumstance. I get it; it's hard to manage a mob, the team didn't want PvP to break out in the middle of Ysinode, and things needed to keep moving. I might have been more fine with this decision if it wasn't for the aftermath, which leads me to...

-- I genuinely don't know why we made any decision in the first place. I can't help but feel like we would be put in the exact same situation if we had gone back to Sanctuary. We ran out of baublium almost the next day. We didn't seem to score any particular victory from killing the Elder Brain; the Dread are stronger and more oppressive than ever. We didn't get the opportunity to react to or do anything about Dhimani, because he was abruptly and anticlimactically killed off immediately after despite the fact that PCs were angling to assassinate him. Ysinode was touted as a completely dynamic, open ended event with no pre-planned resolution in sight, but I feel like it was anything but and just served to kill off 95% of the most prominent PCs at the time.


I understand this is the end of an era and things need to go a certain way in order for things to play into whatever the team has lined up next. But the execution feels like it could be better. I feel like NPCs like Jenkins, Faussad, and Intryzz are driving things instead of players, which is unfortunate. I don't feel like anyone has any autonomy; we have been riding a ride, not steering one. Intryzz was told to leave and the DMs orchestrated PCs to do his bidding anyways, similar to how Etorix's resurrection was streamlined off the back of loot hungry PCs that should have known better. Sometimes, I wish a DM shout was used to emphasize a player initiative instead of a forced DM one, and this has felt like a particularly egregious issue in the last several weeks. It would be different if this sort of DM interactivity was a norm, but it only seems to happen to this extent when the team wants something to happen -- and they will always make it happen if they want it to happen.

On the other hand, I think it's great that I can ostensibly shoot something at the DM channel and get an NPC possession fairly quickly, and I definitely have to give shout outs to Vlaid and Howland for being so accessible over the last several days.  I love the Machine. I like the plots that are being wrapped up. I love the sense of danger and genuine "end of the world" desperation. I adore the fact that I can log on and practically never feel bored. I get that this isn't sustainable in the long term and I am enjoying it while it lasts.

tl;dr I feel like we are being heavily railroaded to a conclusion and wish there was more emphasis, encouragement, and support going towards player-driven ideas and solutions instead of NPC-forced ones. EFU is at its best when players drive the story and influence the world or a good illusion of such is upheld.

As a final note for future endeavors, I would like to beg the team not to incorporate items like H'bala prison stones, Torizaela's tomb keys, Dunwarren access keys, Animations of Po, etc. into future modules. Items that are impossible to collect without a DM and are only ever given for these end of server events feels incredibly cheap, and we've done it once if not twice every chapter. I understand that these are here to develop lore and create interest, but there are better ways to flesh out the story than dangling a carrot we'll never reach.

[Damien]

The good: The DM activity and plot progression. It's crazy how alive the server has felt due to the increased dm activity. Further to this, the loosening up of supplies/exp/loot I think has made things more fun for everyone also. I think we all need to recognise that, while EFU should remain harsh and unforgiving, people should be able to get online and have fun.

The bad: I'd agree with OOC decisions were weird. I didn't really understand why they were OOC.

The ugly: The factions. No offence but they were all pretty terrible bar The Spellguard. The fact they all faded into nothingness while the spellguard directed the server is testimony to this really..

As a side note to all those commenting above about dying to Elder Brain still, I'd say this can often be the case and you'll get over it. The strongest (in both/either levels and character) tend to die on these big events because they are willing to take the risks vs the random noobs/cowards who survive. No one will remember the noobs/cowards, everyone will remember those who died really.  To be honest as well most times it's actually better to die in the big events.....Stromme died to some insignificant spawn spamming KD on The Way in the end. Would have much preferred dying to H'bala.

The same will happen tomorrow don't you worry.

[zerotje]

I love EfU because it's brutal, dark, has a ton of "grey" characters PC and NPC's alike and I hope EfU will continue with this darker setting than what most other servers have.
It's my hope that FD's, permadeaths etcetera make more of a return. Ysonide was fantastic, so much death and the real consequence of it made it feel so important and awesome.

I was sad to hear when Melinda Bresley's event the permadeaths weren't enforced due to some blue NPC's. I think some people that should've been dead, lived on, despite not having encountered the issue in the first place, but I can understand this.

The OOC votes in the Dhimani rebellion was terrible immersion breaking and alot of people wanted to walk to loyalist then quickly switched neutral when seeing the odds. I feel sorry for the loyalist side.
Maybe it is better if you organised it in a way that both sides would be elsewhere in Sanctuary instead of the same room.

I only played Efu:R and I'm kind of sad to see it was Dhimani that lead the Ysonide assault and made the decision to attack. He is a NPC. The player choice was that we sided with him over Bresley.
It should have been a player initiative, maybe with some DM pushing, but no a NPC thing. Ysonide has been in the back of my head for YEARS of playing.
The carrier wasnt even a PC initiative it was just Dhimani again. Players should have been scavenging parts in harrowing difficult DM quests or something. Like how Oily Bones were sometimes handled.
And then during the building phase, maybe have had a choice in the weaponary. Maybe propose some versions of plans of the assault on Ysonide instead of 1 path, the Dhimani path.

But I understand the DM's don't have unlimited time to just make all of this so if the way it was handled was due to time constrataints and a desire to move on then I fully understand.

Giving feedback really feels like complaining, but I mean nothing by it.
This server is essentially "free" and a hobby its not even a product. We don't have actual rights :P. Everything done is appreciated!!

[Hautevillee]

I think saving the public posting of the faction goals until November would've been better. They essentially lay dormant (for the most part, as I know some big things did happen in the interim) for months and then resolved abruptly. The EC, especially, didn't seem to have much opportunity to resolve many of theirs, and as a result it feels as though the DMs had a specific plan for the Spellguard goals to be the 'important' ones all along.

Other than that, I've had a blast recently. I haven't been able to attend the big weekend events but this past week especially, with constant Chosen attacks on Enginetown, has really made it feel like a city under siege, just scraping by. Streams of the big events really make me feel more connected to the goings on of the server even when I can't attend, as rumour posts can only ever catch the gist of 4 hour long events.

[Bearic]

I backed the right faction. XD


I think that final event, and similar like it, splitting into teams to accomplish one giant goal, are amazing for these sorts of events. I do realise they are incredibly difficult to manage, however.


I feel like efu keeps adding more and more cool stuff, and the downsides are similar between each chapter. If you lack time to play, you may miss important events, and if you rely too heavily upon dms, you won't have fun, because they too have time constraints.


I feel like the past year of EFU had been outlandishly great, with the long and ever welcoming arena events, the death of the gods events, the portrayals of Malark, Dhimani, Magnatz, Tamriel, the general doom in the face of the End, the area reconstructions time and again, The end of the Withering, the Death of the Mayor, and the Break of the Reformed Order.  There has been so much cool stuff that I've got 200 pages on a word pad of it.


My only complaint is I can't go back to Ymph any more, but I'll get over it. XD