Author Topic: New norm for EFU clerics?  (Read 1042 times)

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Legebril

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on: December 30, 2021, 09:46:29 PM
I love EFU for its RP depth and I learn alot from playing here. Noticed a certain dynamics as of late where players pick cleric class and RP it as a regular fighter with spellcasting abilities completely ignoring divine aspects of the class and it seems to be a new norm on the server which is very very sad. It feels like being on one of NWN mmo servers out there.
Please do not get me wrong, there are some amazing characters of the class like Aaron - a walking ill lucks manifestation.
Anyways, am I the only one that feels that way? Maybe I am missing something?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2021, 09:53:45 PM by Legebril »



wundyboy

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on: December 31, 2021, 05:35:39 AM
The idea is that you have a relic, and you are a guardian of said relic. AKA a relic guardian. So it's to open avenues for players who want to not so worry about cleric RP as much and treat it as an empowering tool for themselves. Cleric RP, however, can still be done and used to convert, speak about, and do other things with your god, be it small faith or self made deity. And, it often turns out that if you portray your deity, and give it oomph, back story, etc, the DMs tend to reward said players for doing so by giving them relics with 5th circle and beyond.

At the end of the day, a cleric can normally acquire a 4th level relic, with a bit of time and dedication, and not worry about 5th level, or push forward with their faith and do what they want.

It's up to the players on how they do it. That's about it.



Scumlord Spiffy

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on: December 31, 2021, 10:48:59 AM
Kinda like wizards who never wizard. Why play a class of reality bending powers if you aren't going to embrace the madness?

Some people just wanna login, talk shit with friends, and do a few quests to relax after a stressful day- at the end this is a game, and while we strive for high standards- I do think we should keep a modicum of understanding toward people who just want to chill.



Random_White_Guy

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on: January 01, 2022, 02:30:12 AM
I think the other issue too is that at the end of the day it's ridiculously hard to RP a cleric if you're trying to move things forward with a Relic Guardian. Unless you choose one of the "Canon" small gods you basically have to invent your own pantheon.

After that you have to convince people it even exists, and that they should know what it is, and that the tenants are agreeable, and that the tenants are worth following before you can even broach the subject of worship. A lot of folks used to enjoy making sendings for people to join them somewhere in the module for sermons but over time it became pretty clear most people wouldn't come, so it became posting those sermons on the forums. Then as Discord became the new primary use there was a huge push for people to give their sermons over the Whispers so it was at least seeable to people out there that a Cleric was making a push and effort to get the word out.

When it comes to actually questing as a Cleric that's another matter entirely because usually DMs and PCs alike do enjoy seeing flavorful emotes about the faith, or concepts, and more but so much of that is a subjective pursuit. There's been times i've seen PCs actively IG just go "Shut up I don't want to hear about your god just bless me". The Cleric can grow indignant or fight them after that, sure, if it makes sense for their faith, but ultimately when it comes to the day to day RP of clerics it's a mixed bag. Also securing a Relic is entirely dependent on many factors as Wundy mentioned, and if PCs are just disinclined to engage a Cleric and listen to his sermon that gets pretty demoralizing pretty fast.

So around the end of EFUR it became a lot of relic guardian's hopes to "Assemble" relics for power which made it a really fun sort of treasure hunter vibe. In CoR with the small gods though that still exists to a degree but it's been tough for a lot of PCs to hit that "Stride" so to speak.

Personally I love clerics and the degree you can from nothing more than your Deity and Class choice build motivation for an entire PC faction - A small wandering priest first, then some acolytes, then a shrine,  then as it grows a Temple, etc is such a great benchmark of PC progress. Very few classes get something so built in for that kind of thing which I think is great.

If anything I'd say if you want to see Cleric's engage more, ask about their faith - who converted them to it, how they came to walk their path, what do they hope comes out of it in the city, etc.

Even if it's just chilling like Spiffy mentioned - Outside the battle field and engaging in the community is where Clerics and Bards have that unique position to really be proverbial and literal rockstars.

Take some of the burden off a character and they open up real fast for the most part.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2022, 02:32:45 AM by Random_White_Guy »
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Nizzy

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on: January 01, 2022, 04:32:12 AM
Just as Scumlord Spiffy said, Wizards who never wizard, we can say the same about barbarians who don't get angry, just push a button to self buff, bards who don't sing nor do anything art related, druids, paladins, the list goes on ... Even fighters have place for carefully thought RP, like, portraying all those years of training and discipline... The amount of RP and flavor is up to the player, and I don't think it should be policed, as Scumlord Spiffy, some people just want to chill, and they should be left alone. On the other hand, what should be done, is already done naturally, is recognition from DMs and fellow  players to those who portray their PCs in a flavorful manner, sometimes even earning them XP or loot or notoriety, etc.



Eraamion

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on: March 21, 2022, 10:27:43 AM
I have recently finished playing a cleric and I would likely not play another again while the current meta stays. I understand the standard reaction may be: "fine enough, it is not for everyone". Maybe it is by design to make it a challenge. In my case it was several reasons, neither of which by itself would be more than a minor inconvenience, but together they create a prohibitive barrier to playing/enjoying the class.

1. The already mentioned "let's suffer this preaching because we need the buffs" attitude of a large part of the playerbase and the social exclusion / ostracism that you face if you decide to fight it.

2. Large portion of players having already a preconceived idea about their PCs' spiritual leanings and attitudes, or decisions what they OOCly want and not want to do. This is generally a problem if your PC has high social skills and tries to use them to push others to do things, but doubly so when converting to your faith.

3. Locking out the circle 5 spells, which made sense when EfU was lower power level but does not make sense these days, or rather, it means that only a minority of players who do things the way the DMs like get the class potential fully unlocked through the relic. Unlike other classes, this means that there is always this nagging "am I doing things right" feeling and you cannot be ever sure whether you get to fully mechanically enjoy the class in the end.

4. The unpredictability of relic availability and their complex requirements, which in case of many domains basically forces you to build around a specific relic, or to only play a particular type of cleric when a particular relic appears in the PC merchants' offer. This is an extension of the above problem; not universal for every cleric/deity/domain, but it essentially makes the issue more pronounced in some cases as you risk only ever getting to cast circle 3 spells and not higher.

Again, each one of the three is trifle on its own but when all are combined, it is just way too unpleasant to deal with to justify ever playing another cleric, unless as a part of a group concept, which eliminates the first two issues.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2022, 10:36:51 AM by Eraamion »



LiAlH4

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on: March 23, 2022, 02:03:55 AM
Cleric is probably my favorite class on EFU, to the point that I have been accused of playing a cleric when I was in fact playing a fighter or a rogue. It has its own unique advantages and challenges. They are all exercises in creative writing and have massive potential to influence the world.

A few quick recommendations to would-be clerics who want to be successful:

  • Approach a cleric as a long-term character who will have to grapple with their faith in some form or fashion--even if you expect your character to burn bright and on a short taper.
  • The nature of the small gods leaves a lot up to player interpretation and depiction, which you should try to embrace.
  • Understand that many characters will not understand your faith as well as you do and devise good parables or themes to help skeptics get onboard.
  • Write about the faith, whether it is in the form of sermons that you end up giving in-game or on the forums, or both. This helps both you and future clerics of your small god.
  • Preach constantly, even when you don't get many attendees--and especially when you get just a few attendees, engage them directly.

Relic availability is a legitimate issue, but one DMs are broadly receptive to correcting if you are doing well as a cleric. Some small gods/relics, due to the prevalence of their faith, will have easier access to relics. In any case, message me directly if you are having trouble with this. I am happy to talk about the various faiths in EFU.



Orcan Love Boat

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on: March 23, 2022, 04:27:29 PM
Don’t preach endlessly and only on sendings.  Approach strangers.  Hold sermons.  Show your your god is good for this or that.

People who endlessly preach over sendings automatically turns me off.  It’s dull, it’s boring, it’s a lazy way to beg for a relic.



Loops

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on: March 25, 2022, 06:44:23 PM
How is taking the time to do anything on EFU lazy?

I feel sorry for anyone who tries to play a cleric right now, to be honest.

From my perspective, faith is always a huge part of all my characters. I only really play for the immersion side of RP. Deciding on a faith and how it affects each aspect of my character is like step 2 when I make a new one, because for me a lot of ideas spring from it. Whether it was Luitgard striving to be ring worthy, Wisteria praising frogs, or Giselle throwing down over a lady's honour, I want it all to mean something.

The thing is, no one really cares. You mention faith content and people switch off. That's fine. People can focus on what they enjoy. But I really don't blame people who play cleric from switching off in return. Plus, I know from first hand experience that you can play a cleric for months, inject it into everything you do, and never get a relic or really go anywhere with it.

The malaise isn't just player side too. We've had 3 years of faith content generated by players and it feels like it just slides right off. Nothing really gets established from what players are pursuing. Even when things shake the world in the short term, it's just forgotten. How much Nine Faced content did we have after the Tenth Faced Heresy? Why introduce the Vestry just to blow it up? Following from that, if Vestry content dozens of people are pursuing for years is getting destroyed because Malagor is so awesome, where is Malagor now?

Sure, on EFU you don't get something for nothing. But this is an aspect of the server that is especially hollow and barely realised.

I'd say I can count on my fingers the amount of times a player driven faith has become incorporated into the world, but I can't even think of one off of the top of my head. Some people got to put it on the wiki I guess. But that's not really inspiring to people. What really destroys me is when something is added or retconned into the world but it undermines or replaces something players once tried hard to push. I'm certain we've all seen that.

I guess, to me, it just feels like there's been a lot of missed opportunities. Hopefully there's fun stuff to come. I can't really point fingers at players for not putting 100% into clerics though. It's been rough for them.