Author Topic: Prejudice in EFU - 2022  (Read 1623 times)

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Howlando

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on: January 25, 2022, 12:32:48 AM
I’d like to take a moment to clarify EFU’s position on the issue of prejudice against or about other kinds of creatures.

In the real world, I and the DM team believe it is important to behave in a respectful, tolerant, and non-prejudiced manner towards other human beings. This is an enforced standard in all OOC channels.

EFU is not the real world, and contemporary understandings and norms do not apply to in character attitudes about the sentient beings of other species. Terms such as “racism” really should not ever be used IC.

Prejudice against different human ethnicities is generally to be avoided in this current iteration of EFU as they would not really make sense in the City.

Prejudice against Demi-humans such as halflings, elves, dwarves, etc. does make sense and can be optionally a useful source of conflict and interesting role-play. Indeed, this is the basis for many of the attitudes of the Peerage Ward. It is important to remember that in our magical settings these different demi-human races are not ethnicities but really something closer to different species that possess immutable biological differences. Non-evil races such as genasi are another edge case where any prejudice is largely dependent on the character (i.e. a cosmopolitan resident of the City may be comfortable with them but other characters may be frightened by a plane-touched being).


Monstrous creatures such as goblins, aberrations, undead, etc are inherently evil; “evil” in EFU is best understood as a metaphysical force that both encourages and is enhanced by evil actions. “Evil” is not a subjective term as such, it is at the bottom of things something real and definite. That is not to say that we want your characters to necessarily think that way - indeed, shades of grey and difficult choices and nuances is where some of the best role-play can come from. But it is important to emphasize that in EFU "evil" is inherently different from the real world.

Creatures such as tieflings are more complicated, and these (rare) beings are where interesting stories can indeed come from the complexities of portrayal of a being that may be driven towards evil actions but also has capacity for good - again, there is room for plenty of complexity here.

That said, “tieflings” by nature are still evil in EFU. They are descended from beings of evil, and thus they are by nature tied to this force.

I will also add that, 100% of the time, part of the DM approval process for an evil sub-race such as tiefling is for the player to explain how they will portray their character’s evil tendencies. There is plenty of room of nuance and twists-and-turns here - but basically, at the core of things, we expect monsters to have a monstrous nature.


Players are free to portray the attitudes of their non-monstrous characters towards monsters as they think best, but continual association with evil beings (such as the undead, aberrations, and - indeed - even tieflings) does lead to potential corruption of the soul such that an evil alignment may gradually become a more accurate reflection of the character.

Enlightened or modern attitudes being crudely applied to the radically different environment of EFU should probably be pretty rare or reserved for particularly naive or low-wisdom PCs.

Previously there was a post “Races & Reactions” that described common attitudes towards many of the different species in EFU but I can’t seem to find it. If someone can it might be useful, although it should likely be updated somewhat.

I am happy to clarify further issues, address questions, or speak privately with any players who are concerned about these issues.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 05:24:46 AM by Howlando »



Howlando

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on: January 25, 2022, 01:12:02 AM
Yes monsters are just that monsters in a fantasy setting. People cool with monsters should be evil scum who are fine with working with/for complete and total evil. I remember in chapter 1 my hobgoblin and his goblin minions literally eating people. It is up to monster PCS to monstrous.



zerotje

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on: January 25, 2022, 10:41:07 AM
I very much agree and I think more players should start bashing the demi-humans, there's too much tolerance from the player characters in contrast to what the setting is IMO.
Maybe some steering from NPC's could be a more fun way to introduce a change if a change is preferred.



Secutor

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on: March 22, 2022, 05:07:09 PM
Hello, this thread has been cleaned up for presentability. Take that how you will.

If you would like to contribute to the discussion relating to Howland's original post, please feel free.



Howlando

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on: March 23, 2022, 03:24:09 PM
Players who want to get in touch me should just PM me on Discord.



Draugir

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on: March 23, 2022, 09:32:04 PM
I appreciate that prejudices against different races are supported on EFU, I do however feel like it was better enforced earlier in this chapter, when there were two strongly opposed hubs, one that was dominated by feudalist humans and another that was a union of many different races, mostly sharing a common interest in being rampant capitalists.

Now there are peerage houses that openly allow demihumans and I feel like there could be done more by the staff to enforce prejudices. I do remember peerage houses shaming prominent PCs for teaming up with demihumans, but you could probably also add more. There could maybe be quests that cost prestige when completing so they'd be a big issue for peerage PCs to complete. One quest I am thinking about, is the one where you help a kobold captain, take on another group of kobold pirates. And while we're on that quest - I feel it is sending mixed signals that we are meant to treat all evil humanoids with hostility, yet there are a passive kobold pirate that will take you along on his quest.



Secutor

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on: March 24, 2022, 04:50:08 PM
Not taking quests that your PC would not is a time honored tradition. We could set up variables on these NPCs to make it impossible for peerage PCs to do so, but that will only cause more problems. Player discretion is required, and may lead to interesting RP!

Some clarity regarding non humans as retainers is forthcoming, but we can't help it if there are a lot of sympathetic PCs organizing for equality and fairness active at this time.

When we possess NPCs we do our best to represent the ongoing disdain for non humans that is a permanent aspect of the Ward's history and culture. Hopefully the new areas aid in reflecting this.



derkot

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on: March 25, 2022, 02:07:33 PM
Prejudice  to races/creatures in EFU existed always as long as I play in EFU. Some characters shows it brightly. Some shows it just slightly. Some just ignores. I do suspect, sadly, people sometime take things too deeply and too seriously. And sometime such things can be touchy. RP and getting in to character's emotions can be really very soul-touching and facing some troubles in game may just add more troubles to person in real life. I do hope some people who really touched about such topics will speak  and share it with others, DMs or Howlando so to wash away all troubles and get from game fun.  Always share problems with others(can do even with me!) and others will help to get fun from EFU!

Not taking quests that your PC would not is a time honored tradition. We could set up variables on these NPCs to make it impossible for peerage PCs to do so, but that will only cause more problems. Player discretion is required, and may lead to interesting RP!

Some clarity regarding non humans as retainers is forthcoming, but we can't help it if there are a lot of sympathetic PCs organizing for equality and fairness active at this time.

When we possess NPCs we do our best to represent the ongoing disdain for non humans that is a permanent aspect of the Ward's history and culture. Hopefully the new areas aid in reflecting this.

In my opinion, it is happens mostly not because characters or DMs doing work bad at representing conflict between races and showing prejudice but simply because people want be part of cool groups with cool features. Because any non-humans characters currently have no choices unless they are druids-class.  Besides, any association helps to characters to find their own plot/place and as well be part of plot this said assotiations. So, it is not strange to see people trying be part of something bigger and touch all nice custom-efu interesting things. Ticker Square somehow balanced it. Poorly balanced, because Peerage was ghost-town, but now it is very unbalanced and any non-humans doomed to Ringrun or be very creative with their plots/goals while mostly gated out from all stuff in Houses. In short, not very welcome for new players or non-humans. But many things in EFU changes with time and who knows how this will change in future!
Радостное одиночество.



Secutor

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on: March 26, 2022, 07:40:54 PM
Ultimately, this is intended. Human PCs, by design, are the preferred race to play in Chapter 5. If you want to be involved in these factions and mechanics, you are encouraged to come up with Human PC concepts.

That said, non-human PCs that do an excellent job of fitting into or going against the grain of these norms will be noticed and rewarded.

e.g. An Elf in House Velstra who acts servile and demeans himself, but is plotting and scheming for how own benefit (thing eunuchs in ancient courts). A gnome that styles herself a Blacktongue and dangerously flaunts and goads an established faction. A strong heart halfling that knows he can't join House Glitt, but becomes a "squire" of one of their retainers by carrying all their stuff around, and RPing fawning enthusiasm and blind sycophancy.

There are OUB non-house prestige items in each house store now that are intended to be gifts to non-retainer allies that could help facilitate such unofficial allegiances.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2022, 07:42:56 PM by Secutor »



Random_White_Guy

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on: March 26, 2022, 09:59:29 PM
To flesh this out a bit Secutor has asked I throw a few concept ideas as well - consider these either as open offers to use as you like or jump off points.

- A Half Orc Gladiator who, after failed attempt to join House Orza, dedicates himself to become a great Gladiator showman (Bard/Fighter), hosting his own fights but also attempting to assemble others

- Non-Human Paladins are a particularly tough wrinkle but there's -so- much flavor that can come from a PC willing to march that kind of life in EFU, and creates some interesting wrinkles in the status quo because of how often Paladins are ostracized but some Humans and even Retainers would understand the merit of a Paladin ally and etc.

- A Dwarven Ronin who, after losing ties with his Clan in his past life, wanders the world drinking heavily and mastering the art of the thousanfold Dwarven War Axe as a mercenary for hire in the Burgage

- A Gnomish Witch who terrorizes the Peerage for the seizing of her Turnip Farm to be used for Wine and other frivolities at Velstra's newer Vineyards

- An Elven Father who joins the Cult of the Nothing in search of revenge after his Daughter's ears were "Rounded", wishing for all of mankind to burn for the atrocity brought upon his poor baby girl.

- A Halfling Bard who wanders the Rings spreading pipeweed, good cheer, and friendly songs hoping to inspire people to seek a greater life beyond the politics of the Peerage

- An Elven Scholar in the Starter Area scribe robes who, in the pursuit of studying Human History, chronicles generational heritage of the House of Velstra devoting his many centuries of life to building a truly accurate Velstra Family Tree.

- A Dwarven Prospector who lays claim to the Caverns under the Ring of 98 building a band of armed militants and combatants training on the quests beneath the stone without ever returning to Ring 99 but raising hostilities across the realm

- A Half Elf Druid who proclaims himself a "Mongrel" for having tainted human blood and joins the current Mongrel War as an Eldreth Veluuthra style terrorist.

- A Half Orc Ring Running Warrior who aspires to reach Ring One with a wish to be made fully human so he can live a life of peace on a quiet farm after a lifetime of suffering and fighting and prejudice.

- A recondite, because we always need more of those

- A bookish Dwarven Merchant who just wants to use his book keeping skills to make a fortune and life in the Burgage but finds himself dragged into Peerage Politics as his business savvy leads him to be the most prominent merchant the server has ever seen, grappling with the difficulties of human politics.

- A pair of Halfling Bandits that make a gentleman's wager of Vinny Vunco's favorite pipe to whomever can steal the most Retainer Cloaks in two month's time.

- A Gnomish Farmer who hates the Toyfolly and seeks a Great House to help them lay siege and destroy the Factory so the Gnomes of the world can return to their pastoral roots working the earth.

- While the Count and his Men hate non humans, the King has not exactly been kind to them, so serving the Count as a Non Human is a dynamic shift to get revenge on the Peers!

- A Non-Human Sorcerous Servitor of Ojo the Bloodmage to find a back-end to Status and Power in the Peerage Ward.

- A great many people often make Human bastards of noble houses, but Half Elf or Half Orc could be an interesting wrinkle. A Half Orc proclaiming to be a Duchess of some lost House entering the Steadings/Burgage would cause a -firestorm- in a lot of different circles.

- A Non-Human Ranger who seeks to earn Favor of the Peerage by hunting Changelings ala a New Inquisitor/Royal Huntmaster

- A Non-Human Monk who seeks to spread discipline among the non-human communities by offering them lessons to protect themselves from Retainer aggression without escalating to open warfare.

- A group of Non-Humans who train together to become a strong Dispensary Team ala how Football Clubs in Europe have feverish supporters. Regularly trouncing the Retainers and having festivities in the Burgage/Little Ticker and etc building a faction around playing Spoiler at the Peer's favorite game.
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