Zen Combat

[FleetingHeart]

No basis for this other than my own desire to open up a potentially new and interesting method of character development.

As it stands, the DnD method of combat is pretty solid. Strength not only increases your damage, but also increases your chance to do damage. You are, after all, stronger and more likely to cause pain despite your blow striking armor. This makes sense. For those who desire a slightly different method of combat, Weapon Finesse is available to simulate a character who, while less physically over powering, is able to maneuver around their opponents defenses. They strike quickly, but with less power behind their attacks.

But what if there were a third mode of combat? Something more spiritual. More rooted in mental calculations and insight? More about prediction of movement and less about speed or strength?

The precedent already stands with Zen Archery for this type of combat. A traditional archer, with high dexterity, is capable of quickly and accurately adjusting their aim to strike a moving target. They rely solely on their reaction time, much the same way a Finesse fighter relies on their quick reaction to strike a blow where an opening in their opponents defenses has just become available.

A Zen Archer, on the other hand, watches their target closely. They analyze their opponents movements and predict where their opponent is likely to be at a given moment. To an outsider, it might look as though the Zen Archer is shooting at nothing... only to have their opponent stupidly walk into the projectile's path.

What I would propose is the alteration of this talent. The ability to use one's insight and forethought to place a projectile into one's target should not be limited solely to projectile weapons. This same skill ought to apply to melee combat as well. Instead of brute forcing an opponent, or finessing through their defenses, the zen fighter would predict their opponent's next move in order to circumvent their defenses and strike a blow. Awareness and a keen mind become a weapon.

Further precedent for this is set by the Expertise feats. Where a keenly intelligent warrior can devote their attention to defense, rather than offense. These fighters turn their own weapon into an extension of their defense. They are less capable of hitting and dealing damage because they are keenly focused on evading incoming attacks. But it takes a keen mind (as represented by the feats INT requirements) to see a blow coming and react to deflect or avoid it.

So, in the end, I would like to see Zen Archery reworked to include all attacks made. Naturally, it would be best to add a second feat, but I don't think that that is a possibility without a HAK. I'm not even sure if the feat can be altered without a HAK. But I suspect it can.

This would lead to fighting characters who could be more spiritual or insightful, making for some interesting builds and, hopefully, some very interesting role play.

Of course, there will be some classes that benefit from it more than others. Clerics, unbuffed, would certainly be more capable of combat with this feat. Though in the end with all of the buffs a cleric can cast, it would probably make no difference(since an 18 str overrides a 16 wisdom for hit anyway). Some druids would be able to put this to good use (and quite characteristic of them too, to study a situation and see it from all angles before stepping in). Monks would probably gain very little from this, but it could be interesting none the less. Where I see it making the most interesting characters is actually for fighters, rangers, and barbarians who would like to be less brutal and more insightful in their combat styles.

There are some mechanical advantages and disadvantages too, but I think they balance out for the most part. They do less damage in exchange for some benefits against things like str drains and mind spells.

[Caddies]

If it can be done, would be cool.

[Relinquish]

Does not want, Will promote 18 wisdom clerics and druids, while getting a ton of spellslots and spell DCs, they will still manage to get good AB.

[Humoresque]

Does not want, Will promote 18 wisdom clerics and druids, while getting a ton of spellslots and spell DCs, they will still manage to get good AB.

Sorry sir.

[FleetingHeart]

an 18 wisdom cleric or druid suffers in numerous other ways. As does any character who devotes that many points to one ability.

Besides, in the case of Clerics, they can already achieve strength stats that would completely nullify any gain from taking this talent for melee combat. Mechanically speaking, anyway. For them, it would be more of a flavor talent.

Druids, on the other hand, yes would be able to benefit quite nicely in certain situations. However they have no way of self buffing wisdom, only strength. As it stands, since we are such a low level server, a druid who wishes to devote themselves to melee combat can easily forgo a high wisdom score in favor of some strength. All it would really help with are those druids who wish to focus more on casting while being able to shift into an animal form and be able to contribute in melee once their spells are spent. I honestly don't see a problem with this since they give up so much while shifted anyway. Why is it such a bad thing they are able to actually hit their target? (mind you, I don't know if wildshape has been altered since UD, but it used to be most forms couldn't hit the broad side of a barn since their STR is so low).

[Ebok]

Weapon finesse only works with a few weapons.

Why should zen archery be so much better?

[FleetingHeart]

Different situations call for different feats. Weapon finesse is there for classes who already invest heavily into Dex (rogues, rangers primarily) for other reasons. It's also there for the warrior that would like to dual wield (heavy dex requirements for those feats). They will not be able to invest heavily in strength as a dual wielder, so to make the AB sacrifice less, they might pick up Weapon Finesse. In this case, the weapon restriction isn't even really that restrictive since a dual wielder will most likely be using finessable weapons to avoid even greater AB penalties from their size.

For those same classes to benefit from this, they have to give up other things. Take the rogue as an example. Does he take a 16 wisdom and 10 dex just to take advantage of this feat? Well, maybe, but he's giving up a +3 to a large number of skills (and rogues are a heavily skill based class) in order to gain what, exactly? He'll get a +3 to will saves. Is -3 to hide, move silently, pick lock, disarm trap, and reflex saves worth +3 will? Maybe. That's for the player to decide. But there are certainly costs involved with trying to make a wisdom based meleer with this talent.

It's really not the case of Zen archery being better than Weapon Finesse. It's just a case of them being meant for vastly different things. Each gives certain builds certain benefits at the cost of other things. For the most part though, any class that might usually use Weapon Finesse is going to be giving up a lot to be based on Wisdom. AC, Reflex saves, skill points, damage, etc.

[Cruzel]

It's not possible.

[lovethesuit]

The Book of Exalted Deeds has this feat. It is called Insightful Strike. The entire book is crap.

[FleetingHeart]

Cruzel knows how to burst a bubble. :-(

Though just for the sake of having this out there. I understand that some of what needs to be changed to do this right is hard coded, but as a work around the feat could just grant a difference in AB.

If character has 10 str and 16 wisdom, they get +3 AB bonus. If wisdom drops to 14 for whatever reason, the AB bonus drops to +2. If str drops to 6 for whatever reason and wisdom is still 16, they get a +5 ab.

Mechanically their AB is still dependent upon STR, but the feat grants a variable AB bonus to make it -seem- like it is working off of their Wis score.

[Underbard]

There is already a Zen fighter class.  It is called monk.

[FleetingHeart]

Monk comes with a whole host of IC restrictions that fit a fairly narrow range of possible characters. They are also strength based, as every other character is by default.





And they smell bad. :-)

[Listen in Silence]

It's really not possible to add feats by use of HAK's?

[Letsplayforfun]

There is already a Zen fighter class.  It is called monk.

[ScottyB]

It is simply not possible to add a feat like this.

Furthermore, Weapon Finesse is specific to light weapons. It makes sense for dextrous characters to be able to wield light weapons with a "light" touch. Zen Archery is specific to bows. There was and continues to be real-world precedent for archery and general marksmanship to rely on insight more than reflex (with proper dedication).

Its successful use with other forms of combat is debatable. On the one hand, the thematic aspect makes for a cool anime fight scene. On the other hand, Mort would say it's OP or simply further skew balance, and I might actually agree. (Why should WIS builds get more options than DEX? Why can't CON improve heavy weapons? What about CHA builds?)

But most importantly, I cannot conceive of any way to reliably implement this. Even with HAKs. And something like this would not warrant suddenly becoming a HAK server.