Rogue Ideas

[Capricious]

I've been considering this post for a while now, and haven't made it because I know how people love to argue and tell you that everything works fine. However, considering the level of customization for classes, summons, wildshapes, etc, I feel that it would be nice to toss out some ideas for rogues. Before anyone says it, I don't so much thing rogues need beefing up as I feel they could use some catering too in a few areas to make them more useful.

A telling thing on any PW, I've found, is how many of a certain sort of class/build you see. Here you don't see a lot of pure rogues, which to me indicates that the player-base doesn't feel so motivated to play them.

Anyway, I'll toss out a few ideas:

1) Up the tries at Bilby's from 5 to 7. The problem here is more one for newer players who've never done the quest on any character before. It takes a couple times to learn it, meaning you toss those couple times away. The loot you gain can be very good, but I don't feel two more tries would be unbalancing. It would toss the players new to the quest a bit of a chance to make up for the couple times they totally blew the quest, and get decent loot in the end.

2) Add locked chests in quests. Another nice aspect might be to have an occasional locked chest with a DC in the 35-45 range at the end of some quests. Not necessarily the one with the best loot, but some very nice loot typically inside. This would motivate people to take along a decent rogue to these quests, making them more useful. It would also balance the fact that there's so many things on EfU that rogues can't sneak attack, making them far less useful in certain quests.

3) Add locked doors in quests. Something like a side room or two here and there, rooms you don't necessarily need to go in to complete the quest, but with some spawns and maybe a bit of loot where the PCs really would prefer to get inside.

4) More traps in quests, but this one is fairly obvious. Strong traps that you can't avoid, and need a competent rogue to disarm. By making them block passages, or putting them on doors and the like, you remove some of the metagaming of their positions as well.

5) More pick pocket opportunities. Being able to pick pocket some of the NPC merchants is very nice. But I'd like to see some riskier marks for this. NPCs where you get nicer gold, or maybe a chance of a piece of loot, but with DCs in the 25-30 range or so. Not many of these of course, just one or two that can only be done once/reset. If you miss you get rebuffed from then on, just like with the NPC merchants already in the mod.

These are just a few ideas I had to open up discussion.

[Relinquish]

I'm not fond of the "You need a rogue to complete this quest" idea. The side-rooms are fine and I think there are examples of that on coral cove. On a few quests there are indeed locked chests/doors that offer a higher chance at better loot.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Adding more traps and locks would not help pure rogue in the slightest as you could take a single level and up disable trap and open lock. Both of which already are quite useful on the quests that aren't frequented but give the best loot.

Pick pocket is handled so poorly in nwn much like crafting would probably be best if it was never included in the game period. Though if you mean risky as in "if you get caught this npc and his guardians will hostile and try to kill you" I'm all for it.

[putrid_plum]

I wish there were more traps on quests that can't be avoided.  People tend to metagame traps SO bad it is sickening in some cases.  I agree with OP!

[Ommadawn]

I think rogues could do with a little more love. Rogue levels are great, but as the OP said, the number of pure rogues compared to other classes isn't that great.

[TheImpossibleDream]

I wish there were more traps on quests that can't be avoided.  People tend to metagame traps SO bad it is sickening in some cases.  I agree with OP!

Never actually seen this myself. I dunno maybe I play with a different crowd.

Back on topic. Pure Rogues are great. Anybody who thinks they can't be wildly successful in pvp, quests and otherwise has probably not ever heard of Pyotyr. The level 9 rogue who wasn't even a combat build who took down 9-10 people at once alone at times with careful wand/trap use.

I don't think a class needs to be buffed just because so few people know how to take advantage of it to the full. Just takes quite a bit more mechanical know how to use them.

As a class labeled Jack of all Trades this should be a given.

[putrid_plum]

Usually happens when you don't play witht he same players over and over, go to sending, etc, you will see this... so yeah I wouldn't doubt that you don't see it, but it does happen a fair amount.

[Relinquish]

Pyotr was amazing, but he also lived for a -long- time and inherited a ton of gold to buy said wands with.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Pyotr was amazing, but he also lived for a -long- time and inherited a ton of gold to buy said wands with.

Part of the skills of a rogue, diplomacy and stealth make for longevity.

[Disco]

I very much dislike the idea that you HAVE to bring a rogue on a quest to get to that special chest, or that locked room.

[Drakill Tannan]

I don't. Asides from sneak attack & stealth, what makes rogues good is the fact they can open that particular door nobody else can.

[Random_White_Guy]

Maybe Bilby purchases traps at a special high price for rogues, to refill his test with them, so you could sell found traps to NPCs while regular PCs cannot

While pickpocketing is a neat implementation it is woeful that EFU has so few "Cool unique things" for the roguish sort to partake in.

Maybe the ability to try and cheat at Royal Dragon.

Maybe "rogue bonus" areas of quests: Not something you vitally need but there's a clear region of stuff that makes people go "If we brought one this would be way nicer".

Somewhat like how you "Have to have a ranger" to follow transition tracks to get some parts of a second quest, Rogues could be used in a similar capacity.
etc
Instead of opening a second quest it would lead to some random bonus room with tools/ that could be used on the quest or shared afterwords.

When I last played a Rogue even the pickpocketing stuff wasn't implemented but there is a great lack of emphasis placed on the sweeter science of shady class.

Nearly every class on the entire server but them gets both mechanical boons and server side perks that lead to money/use on quests/ otherwise.

[Cerberus]

Perhaps a quest (or add to an existing one) with an alternate route through a secrete or locked door or tunnel...
 
Path A, the main path has the majority of monsters and traps. Path B is the path taken by the inhabitants to avoid the traps of path A. Path B has no traps and very few encounters but leads to the same place as path A. You can do this without a rogue taking path A but if you have a rogue you might be able to get through that much easier without expending all your potions and what-nots.

[Lulzebub]

How about taking some of those locked doors that go nowhere and making them into little low-level rogue only burglary mini-quests? Break in, steal the loot, and try not to get caught.

I also like RwG's idea.

[Caddies]

IMO, pure rogues are without doubt the weakest class on EFU and I'd be interested in seeing perhaps some minor buffs to them. I do not like the 'more traps, more locks' ideas though. I was thinking something like a rogue-only shop, rogue-only methods of city travel, minor stealth/detection bonuses in city/sewer areas, and the like.