Rogue Ideas

[GoblinSapper]

A reflex save to dodge and a fort or str roll to resist fits in with pretty much every other debilitation spell I know of, so why not assasin vines.
 
Also, give us a bonus to using poisen. I got all this poisen but only assasins/BG's can use it?

[Decimate_The_Weak]

I think rogues should receive some sort of bonus, but nothing major. We don't want them going from weakest, to strongest.
 
And in PvP cases, a "gank" rogue that buffs, sneaks, and knockdowns is deadly enough - giving anything that increases their ability in PvP is meh.

[Drowel]

Really i think rogues should just get a stealth bonus in urban areas.

[Ommadawn]

I like Dr D's suggestion most.

[FleetingHeart]

A reflex save to dodge and a fort or str roll to resist fits in with pretty much every other debilitation spell I know of, so why not assasin vines.
 
Also, give us a bonus to using poisen. I got all this poisen but only assasins/BG's can use it?

Anyone can use poison. You must pass a Dexterity check to apply it without poisoning yourself. Assassins pass this check automatically.

[GoblinSapper]

yes but the DC on that check is ludicrously high especially for a 1-20 server, a rogues dex modifier will only be 3-5ish, and the poisen doesn't last long

[Relinquish]

Depending what poison you want to use the DC can be anywhere from 10 to 22.

[GoblinSapper]

Right and thats a d20 with a bonus of anywhere from 3 to 5. So at BEST you need to roll a 17 for the best poisen.

[Lulzebub]

Yeah, the poison system on EfU is great. Making it more serviceable would be marvelous for rogues, but IMO it would really benefit rangers most. Dexterity based rangers would really benefit from poisons, while the rogue's sneak attack more than makes up for their lack of strength-based damage.

The thing is, rogues pretty much suck at everything they're supposed to be good at. They aren't the best sneaks, rangers beat them every time. There are no major locks or traps on the server for them to open up. They are supposed to make the best assassins (i.e. killers for hire, not the PrC), but it seems like even clerics are better suited for that, not to mention rangers. They just get outclassed all the time. They're the fat kid on the dodgeball team.

Considering that only rogues and bards get UMD, and that both rogues and bards have extremely weak AB, adding some more items in the loot tables for rogues and bards with Bless, Aid, Bane, and other spells once per day would not significantly upset the balance of the server. (And while on that subject, bards desperately need more spell slots.) Some more single use items with True Strike wouldn't hurt, either.

Outside of quests, the main goal of a rogue in combat is to defeat their opponent before they get a chance to get close and start attacking. If you can't stun or otherwise disable your foes after you've lost the initiative, you're guaranteed to die if you don't retreat. This makes PvP an all-or-nothing deal for rogues. If you're going to win, you usually know it right away, and the longer the fight, the more likely it is that the rogue will die. Small, incremental increases to initiative as well as minute, temporary bonuses to AB seem to me like they'd help a rogue the most without giving them an unfair advantage against other PCs.

[GoblinSapper]

Rogues do have some advantages in their ability to totally dodge fireballs with their high reflex and evasion feat. Also, I find groups really benefit from my ability with traps and locks. But activly, in combat, I lack the high burst dmg you'd expect from a rogue.

[Capricious]

Honestly, I think the thing that would be one of the biggest boons would be a store where the Rogue could sell traps they picked up. A Rogue-only store that gives them a means to make gold using their skills. As it is now a Rogue with a high Pick Pocket can make a little gold, but the class that's supposed to be one of the most self-sufficient can't compete with classes such as Wizards, Clerics and such who can craft potions and wands.

I'm not saying that Rogues should be able to easily get rich off of this, but Rogues typically don't get as big a share of the loot as meleers do (understandably so). However, they also tend to use more supplies than spell casters just because they don't have those spells to use on themselves.

[Kinslayer988]

I really understand the problem with pure rogues.

Pure rogues are able to deal damage with their sneak attacks. Most usually are ranged but some are combat. Both still are useless against undead. A rogue's main bane is the fact that they can't sneak attack some creatures. This sometimes utterly kills a rogue. Also rogues have little hp which does not help the situation. Some people don't like to play them because of how fragile they are.

On most Player Worlds rogues are usually a multiclass choice. Most will take 3 levels at the most for that extra diplomacy skills, UMD, tumble, or just an extra sneak atk. From joining this server a few days ago I have noticed a high amount of these.

Playing a pure rogue is hard but is possible. You must have REALLY good deceptive skills, be able to use traps, wands, and use sneak attack to your best use.

[Barehander]

Well, I reckon a big problem is that Darkness doesn't count as cover for Stealth and supposedly doesn't grant Sneak Attacks on EfU, which pretty much nullifies the purpose of the spell. And more importantly, that corner-sneaking is illegal. I find that the most idiotic rule on the server, to be honest. Not only is it perfectly legit everywhere else, it's also the bread and butter of any half-arsed rogue's basic strategy and extremely important immersion-wise. If you don't have to worry that you're going to lose a sneaky guy in a dark alleyway or a thick forest only to be ambushed again, stealth is pretty pointless. Especially since NPCs seem to do this. Corner-sneaking is not an exploit, it's pretty much the intended use of Stealth: you ambush, run the hell away, hide, and try to ambush again.

First step in making rogues viable is to allow corner-sneaking. I wouldn't even consider making a rogue-heavy PC before that was done.

[Relinquish]

Darkness was changed back to normal AFAIK.

Corner sneaking is illegal in PvP because you can use a bow shoot once, run away, stealth, repeat. It was ruled that you can corner sneak -once- if you are disengaging in combat and not going to re-engage.

[GoblinSapper]

Playing a pure rogue, as long as I have a good tank i'm golden really. Hit me with a mage armor and maybe a cats and I can even fight in melee. I just feel useless against anything I cannot sneak attack.