Scripted quest restrictions

Started by Aethereal, February 14, 2012, 06:47:33 PM

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Aethereal

I was uncertain of whether I should place this in the General or Suggestions forum, but after some experiences in-game, I have opted to raise it as something that ought to be documented to some minor degree at the very least.

I have mentioned this in IRC before and it seems there is good reason both for and against having a list of quest restrictions available to players.

One of a few reasons against it is metagaming arising if too much is given away. Along with the server challenge set by Howland regarding completion of all scripted quests. Both of these issues can be avoided though, by withholding anything that comes near spoiler level and not including every single quest in the list (although that could be considered counter productive to the goal.)

My main reason for advocating this is outlined in the scenario below. I am certainly not the first to experience this, nor was this my first time I have come across this type of situation. And it is quite likely I will not be the last one to  succumb to this less than desirable outcome.

[INDENT]Recently, I took extensive efforts in organising an adventure that would end up in a quest area we could all join in. Or so I thought. So we went about finding the path there, collected party members and had others join along the way. The issue was, when we got to the end point, it turned out that I was not eligible for the quest thanks to being one level too high.

This was an incredible disappointment for me, because I failed in what I thought would result in a successful exploration adventure AND a reward in the form of quest completion.

Sure the roleplay along the way was nice, but we were seeking to uncover secrets venturing into an even more awesome RP outcome and it all just ended abruptly for me. I provided what buffs I could to the group before they entered without me, making up some lame excuse that the gates were warded against my presence.

The group went through with the quest, but failed, which in large part was due to the lack of my aid. I felt responsible for having led everyone there, resulting in a disappointment for everyone to some degree. So I had my character gift them all something useful, equivalent to what they might find from the quest. Apologising for leading them to a place where I couldn't even join them.

The incidence of the above scenario is why I support the availability of a list of scripted quests, stating the bare essentials while hiding any spoilerish materials. Regardless of this being made available, I have settled on the decision that I as a player simply MUST have a personal list of SQA limits and restrictions... Which is purely OOC knowledge developed over several characters and possibly asking fellow players...

I simply wouldn't want others to undergo such disappointments. Even though I admit the journey of roleplay and organising the group wasn't without its own reward. Just an incredible shame that it did not go as well as it should have in the theories swimming through my mind and the (most likely negative) effect the failure might have on future expedition turnouts![/INDENT]

An example of the bare bones of such a list:

[Alignment can probably be omitted where not an issue.]

Quote
Quest name:[INDENT]The Rise of the Dead[/INDENT]
Level range: [INDENT]1-6[/INDENT]
Party size: [INDENT]2-8[/INDENT]
Alignment restrictions: [INDENT]Chaotic to Lawful: 0 to 100, Evil to Good: 0 to 100[/INDENT]
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'Even life eternal is not time enough to see, all the folly and despair of poor Humanity.' - To Life - A Shoggoth on the Roof

It is through Art, and through Art only, that we can realise our perfection.

Crump

I agree with this since these are mostly mechanical/balance restrictions rather than in-character ones.

MrGrendel

I support this, in theory.

Vlaid

I don't like it personally. Doesn't feel like the gain is worth the loss in giving away all that information in one easy to browse location on the forums. Even if it's all OOC information, it's OOC information you have to travel to the quest giver to find.

VanillaPudding

The locations aren't revealed in the list I made in general discussion. Only the fully OOC things such as level restrictions. If anything, knowing that there is a quest out there that you havn't done will only promote some more exploration for people if they know it exists -somewhere-.

tropic

It's worth mentioning that in extreme cases (like the one above) a DM can allow you to take the quest even if you're not within the level range.

Vlaid

Quote from: VanillaPudding;274765The locations aren't revealed in the list I made in general discussion. Only the fully OOC things such as level restrictions. If anything, knowing that there is a quest out there that you havn't done will only promote some more exploration for people if they know it exists -somewhere-.

That's precisely my point. It told you something about the quest existing, possibly a hint in it's name, and level range. It gives you the knowledge that the quest exists before you even find it.

That's what I don't like.

Questing Knight

Equally though Vlaid, veteran players will inevitably know of and do these quests from character to character.  Really it only places newer players at a disadvantage having not explored the server and found them on other pc's.

Aethereal

Quote from: tropic;274768It's worth mentioning that in extreme cases (like the one above) a DM can allow you to take the quest even if you're not within the level range.

DMs are not always online. I personally despise pestering DMs for selfish reasons.

To go and lament on IRC etc and attempt to force them to do this, just doesn't seem like a viable option.
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'Even life eternal is not time enough to see, all the folly and despair of poor Humanity.' - To Life - A Shoggoth on the Roof

It is through Art, and through Art only, that we can realise our perfection.

One_With_Nature

The quest challenge is no more FYI.

Aethereal

One more point I forgot to add. I don't know about you folks, but I often receive PMs from our newer players and just the occasional noob (All of whom I do not mind helping out, btw) such as:

"level?"

"lvl?"

"Hello, good sir. What level would be sufficient to join your fine venture?"

Sure we could tell these players to come find me and inquire in-character, then I could OOCly ask them or they could OOCly inform me of their level, and then I can politely deny them or welcome them along. So we do miss out on that kind of interaction, but how often do people do that rather than merely respond with a tell back: "Level 6 min" or something. Just another point to consider.
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'Even life eternal is not time enough to see, all the folly and despair of poor Humanity.' - To Life - A Shoggoth on the Roof

It is through Art, and through Art only, that we can realise our perfection.

Porkolt

Having to send someone away IC for an OOC reason is pretty awkward, and I really don't mind if people avoid those situations by sending a tell first.

Not to mention that creating a quest list would do nothing to solve this problem, as players are often very vague about what quest they're going to do (as is mostly appropriate, you often don't know that dark tunnel you're going to explore has this and that monster in it).

Aethereal

Quote from: Porkolt;274813Not to mention that creating a quest list would do nothing to solve this problem, as players are often very vague about what quest they're going to do (as is mostly appropriate, you often don't know that dark tunnel you're going to explore has this and that monster in it).

I am not trying to be pedantic when I pick on this. But to say outright that a list would do nothing to solve a problem that is fairly broad is well, misinformed.

For one thing, had I the knowledge of the exact level cap in my outlined scenario (which in and of itself is not uncommon), I could have adjusted the plans, or taken the expedition elsewhere.

I could add more to this to suggest that it would actually do something rather than the claimed nothing, but I do not intend to create flame wars born of incessant nonsense.

Let's stay constructive please.
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'Even life eternal is not time enough to see, all the folly and despair of poor Humanity.' - To Life - A Shoggoth on the Roof

It is through Art, and through Art only, that we can realise our perfection.

River Walker

I have a question about this.

Let's say that this list is complete and public. So, I get invited to go quest with someone. "I know an old cave where some goblins lurk," they tell me. Hearing that, I pull up my trusty quest list, and...

... do nothing, because I don't know which of the many goblin-infested caves we're going to. All I've got to go by are the names of a bunch of quests, and I won't know the name of the quest I'm about to take until I get there, take the quest, and only then will I finally see its name in my quest journal.

So... how exactly is this list going to solve the OP's original problem?

EDIT: I just saw that Porkolt asked the exact same question.

Aethereal

Quote from: River Walker;274915I have a question about this.

Let's say that this list is complete and public. So, I get invited to go quest with someone. "I know an old cave where some goblins lurk," they tell me. Hearing that, I pull up my trusty quest list, and...

... do nothing, because I don't know which of the many goblin-infested caves we're going to. All I've got to go by are the names of a bunch of quests, and I won't know the name of the quest I'm about to take until I get there, take the quest, and only then will I finally see its name in my quest journal.

So... how exactly is this list going to solve the OP's original problem?

EDIT: I just saw that Porkolt asked the exact same question.
That is a valid point.

In my scenario though, my character had been to the location before and I had thought I would be eligible to join along with the party. When we got there though, it turned out I was not, which is a direct result of not having noted the exact quest level limit when I was there last time.

As I have said, I am not certain if a fully public list is desirable, but have resolved on establishing a personal database which is obviously something that cannot be monitored by DMs. So is it fair that I possess all of this OOC knowledge that others do not? It may be, since I have earned it through adventuring around with a series of characters.

The list would just be another OOC reference tool, not something that you should necessarily pick out every single time a quest is involved. And although most times character descriptions of an expedition are ambiguous it isn't usually impossible to understand their intended destination, especially if the location is given.

The introduction of this list might well be a penicillin, removing some of the beneficial qualities of keeping things secret, even if it manages to cure the issue of these in-game disappointments, that much seems apparent.
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'Even life eternal is not time enough to see, all the folly and despair of poor Humanity.' - To Life - A Shoggoth on the Roof

It is through Art, and through Art only, that we can realise our perfection.